How much is too much boss damage?
I see a few youtubers with 3XX% boss dmg. If there is such thing as too much boss damage, what should be prioritized next?
February 2, 2015
How much is too much boss damage?
I see a few youtubers with 3XX% boss dmg. If there is such thing as too much boss damage, what should be prioritized next?
18 Comments • Newest first
@Axnslicer: My bad, thanks for correcting me. I totally forgot about the CS nerf that happened; I quit my phantom a few months before it. What I was referring to though in my post was skills that phantoms steal only have 90% effectiveness (iirc), so that'd make CS 72% now for phantoms.
It's not about how much % boss damage you should stop at. Many people have the misconception that you should stop at certain number because you just have too much. No, it's about how much damage output you gain from a certain pot compared to another. Yes, % boss damage has diminishing return because on one potential line, you can get a lot higher % than %atk, but just because you are near "250% boss" does not mean you should recube your %boss. Calculate how much %boss to % atk relative to your current stats and then work with your potentials accordingly. Hope this clears out any questions regarding this topic.
@shalazaar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWdFQ4yC_VE
I've never done tower before but I'm sure if I had a great support team and a lot of practice, I'd be possible. Not really interested in doing this though since the time investment for me is simply not possible.
Anyways, I made an edit in my post. Dorthy is impossible for me to do!
@CherryTigers solo every boss except dorothy u mean ;-)
[quote=UAPaladin]Just to let you know Dennis, Cross Surge is calculated really weirdly. There were some tests done on southperry, and Cross Surge does multiply into your range as if it was just a normal %TD source (adding to other %TD sources before multiplying into your range), but for some reason, it doesn't affect your damage that way. Regardless of your current %TD, CS doubles your damage (even though it doesn't double your range), acting as a separate 200% multiplier (or 190% since you're a phantom). I haven't really been on much in over a month now though so there's a chance that they've changed it since then and I just haven't heard about it.[/quote]
Cross Surge nerf 100%->80%. Otherwise accurate. Confused me for a few hours when I realized my pre/post Cross Surge range and damage weren't matching up until a DrK explained exactly what was going on lol.
I ran the calculations, as it turns out even differences of up to 200% boss away from ideal don't really matter. Even with utterly unbalanced situations like 500% boss damage and 0% att you will only gain approximately 10% more dps if you recubed that to an ideal % att to boss ratio.
What actually matters is how many lines of % boss, att, and pdr you can land on your equips.
TLDR: Never recube % att to % boss or vice versa, it's a waste of money. Only cube to increase the number of good lines.
So the 250-300% goal includes skills? Meaning a class with over 100% total damage from buffs/skills only needs like 150-200%?
[quote=CherryTigers]250-300% is the optimal numbers from what I've found and personally tested. %atk loses out to %boss in terms of damage output. I test this by taking off and putting on equips and comparing damage.
Personally on my fire poison mage, I'm juggling near 300-320% boss as the most optimal before turning towards %atk.
I think my Phantom has like 270% and that's more than enough since he has so much %total damage from cross surge.
To anyone watching my videos who is curious for why Fluffalo doesn't actually have 250% boss anymore... He can solo every boss in the game now. If I was maining 1 character, I would recube his shield for 2 lines of %boss but since I am funding 3 mains now, I can put my money into more useful things and get better returns.[/quote]
Just to let you know Dennis, Cross Surge is calculated really weirdly. There were some tests done on southperry, and Cross Surge does multiply into your range as if it was just a normal %TD source (adding to other %TD sources before multiplying into your range), but for some reason, it doesn't affect your damage that way. Regardless of your current %TD, CS doubles your damage (even though it doesn't double your range), acting as a separate 200% multiplier (or 190% since you're a phantom). I haven't really been on much in over a month now though so there's a chance that they've changed it since then and I just haven't heard about it.
Remember there is no such thing as too much boss dmg, just p oints were %att is better. I have a ton of boss dmg, but that's not a huge concern, I just happened to cube really op boss lines, that won't hurt you, and there are probably better places to upgrade anyway, compared to switching to %att.
You also have to consider, individually, what you are doing most of the time. If you are always training and rarely boss, then %boss isn't going to do you much good even if it increases your potential output. On the other hand, if you have a character that virtually does nothing but bossing, then %boss will obviously be more beneficial (up to a point) since the lines are higher. If, like most people, you are somewhere in between, then the calculator posted by @UAPaladin on the first page looks pretty good for testing your own balance.
Tested the calculator, and assuming you're not an explorer/nova, it's best to get only % boss on main pot and % atk on bonus.
I put the most likely legendary bpot you can hope for without too much luck (21+21+15) and tested % atk vs % boss for the other possible pots (70, 70, 50?) just to confirm this.
Course this is just me with my stats.
[quote=UAPaladin]Most people say 200-250% is enough, but that's generally just numbers that they hear and repeat and they have no idea why some people think it's the best. To be honest, I can't give you an answer for this, because it depends on your specific character due to your current %boss, %TD, and %att affecting this, but I'd generally recommend somewhere in the low 300%'s. If you actually want to spend a couple of minutes to figure out what specific amount of %boss would optimize your damage, check [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2845178/1/_Boss_vs__Att_Guide.html]this[/url] out.[/quote]
Nice calculator. I tested it with 0% ATK, and it turns out you need 232% Boss+TD before you should even consider attack (70% boss = ~21% attack) on regular pot.
Of course, bpot should always be ATK%, because the boss damage you get from that is negligible.
232%'s a nice number because you get exactly 32% TD from Kanna/DA/top 50 gloves, and then with the 15% boss from the gloves you need another 185% boss.
60% base RA+30% Gollux+15% DS means another 80% boss from other sources.
What would be recommended for a mech? I got 88% pdr, 189% boss, 15% atk and 6 reg pot lines (and 9 bpot lines) available for cubing
[quote=UAPaladin]Most people say 200-250% is enough, but that's generally just numbers that they hear and repeat and they have no idea why some people think it's the best. To be honest, I can't give you an answer for this, because it depends on your specific character due to your current %boss, %TD, and %att affecting this, but I'd generally recommend somewhere in the low 300%'s. If you actually want to spend a couple of minutes to figure out what specific amount of %boss would optimize your damage, check [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2845178/1/_Boss_vs__Att_Guide.html]this[/url] out.[/quote]
The reason why people say 200~250% is because you can get the extra ~50% from other places i.e. boss killing pot, guild skill, etc.
Final boss+td% you want is indeed somewhere low 300%'s
250-300% is the optimal numbers from what I've found and personally tested. %atk loses out to %boss in terms of damage output. I test this by taking off and putting on equips and comparing damage.
Personally on my fire poison mage, I'm juggling near 300-320% boss as the most optimal before turning towards %atk.
I think my Phantom has like 270% and that's more than enough since he has so much %total damage from cross surge.
To anyone watching my videos who is curious for why Fluffalo doesn't actually have over 250% boss anymore... He can solo every boss in the game now (except dorthy cough). If I was maining 1 character, I would recube his shield for 2 lines of %boss but since I am funding 3 mains now, I can put my money into more useful things and get better returns.
I cap at cvellum with around 76% att, 221% boss, 35% total damage, 89% pdr. Of course this is a dark knight so our gungnir attack skill has built in pdr and my cross surge gives total damage afcording to % health. As mentioned above, we need more information on your other stats and what class you wanna do before we can consider how mch is too much.
Typically, you want:
-250-low 300s% boss
- 85-90% pdr for CRA
- The rest in %att.
Boss should be from set bonuses, link skills, potential lines on wep + secondary, and nebs on wep + secondary.
Pdr should be from set bonuses, link skills, crusader codex, and potential on emblem.
%att should be from Wep, secondary, and emblem bonus pot, with some scattered in reg pots.
Most people say 200-250% is enough, but that's generally just numbers that they hear and repeat and they have no idea why some people think it's the best. To be honest, I can't give you an answer for this, because it depends on your specific character due to your current %boss, %TD, and %att affecting this, but I'd generally recommend somewhere in the low 300%'s. If you actually want to spend a couple of minutes to figure out what specific amount of %boss would optimize your damage, check [url=http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2845178/1/_Boss_vs__Att_Guide.html]this[/url] out.
IIRC after ~200% boss, you should start switching to % attack. You'll probably want your PDR at atleast 90% if you are going for the Root Abyss boss (I gave up at around 89%).