General

I PVPed on my best friends NL, actually better than my shadower in terms of killsteaks in my opinion.

[quote=AdmiralJett]Bowmasters are the worst class atm.

They dont have any good Mobbing skill,
and hurricane is bad.[/quote]
You are right about the worst class part and the mobbing part, but hurricane isn't necessarily bad. Compared to the new classes that have a better version of hurricane (2 lines) yeah it kind of sucks.

PVP: We're above average once you master jump shooting.
And of course some NLs like to abuse darksight only for the purpose of being annoying and not using it to maximize positive outcomes.

Grinding: Lol I don't grind, that amazing mobbing skill is too good for our squishy class.

Bossing: If we're not good at grinding, we should be good at Bossing...but we have lower % per second
damage than non 1v1 skills. Still, we're average or slightly above on 1 part bosses. (Future Magnus boss?)
Then again new classes (the ones better in every aspect except coolness) have to be better to attract attention.

Partying: Who cares about haste

I'd say we're a decent class, and I like 'em.

Oh and dark flare works...10% of the time.

In PvP, NLs >> BMs...

NLs have a much better Flash Jump and BMs don't even have a legit attack skill due to Hurricane's speed being nerfed and Broiling Shot being kinda weak..

what? I hear nooobs complaining about Bishop being the worst class =.=

@underpaying: i rather have no revamp and QQ about it than get the revamp and QQ about getting a crap one.

I hope nexon pulls a fast one on us and gives us a hyper skill that makes QT hit more than 1 monster. That wouldn't be unreasonable considering how many other classes have moves that do 6-8 hits AND hit multiple enemies.

Anyway, We're not the worst by far, we're more in the middle but we're really reliant on funding compared to other classes. In pvp I do great against most classes except for funded phantoms with magic guard, bishops, and evan's. Everyone else I do fine against.

Im on the same boat as you my fellow dark companion. Im semi funded (Estimated amount of $ spent on this char, eh around 300$) and i dont hit 100k per star but i do hit about 2-3 100ks per star. As more classes come out nexon is screwing us even more. We finally got a revamp we deserved but hey guess what..CHAMPIONS UPDATE COMES OUT and every other class gets a mini revamp. We still have basically one skill use and thats Quad star. Every other skills is considered rlly trash to us. except for a few buffs that is. compared to every other class they have a variety of skills to choose from while were stuck in a nut job throwing 4 stars. I consider BM's MM and Wild hunters better than us because BM's have hurricane and have a higher DPS than us, MM have snipe and ultimate strafe and wild hunters also have the hurricane look a like move. we NL's arent just the same as we were pre-BB.

Jump and attack. Thats all there is that needs to be said.
If you pay attention enough.
Flash Jump+Dark Sight+Shadow Shifter+Shadow Web=Never gets hit

I'm always killing people at PvP and I'm not that funded o.o

Your problem is that you're taking PvP seriously.
It's a slap-together job meant to shut people up about PvP not being in the game originally - in no way or purpose is it supposed to be balanced, well thought-out, challenging, or fun.

As for grinding, a Nightlords greatest strength is their 1v1, but since pretty much everyone can effortlessly kill most enemies in the game nowadays, that strength doesn't count for a whole lot.
I suppose the best option would be to target enemies in a level range higher than your current standard. The MISSes should be offset by the excess damage, giving you a more optimal exp output.

It mostly comes down to the amount of dosh put into a character, but Nightlords still aren't the worst class.

[quote=DistantSky]20% avoid, AND damage reduc?
that would make whs much better at survivability :O[/quote]

Next revamp which [i]should[/i] come after Champions.
Now compare WHs to NLs.
Haste party skill vs SE+10%Dmg boost party skill[b]s[/b]

[quote=Pheonixsblaze]Some changes made in Resistance Patch:
20% avoid/dmg absorb/Mp
5% crit boost
10% dmg boost for party (new party skill)

Also, assuming you fund your WH, you should be better at doing damage with afa while NLs hit cap with the first four stars and the other four stars (shadow partner) capping at 699,999
(correct me if I am wrong)

Both NLs and WHs have a hard time surviving and I will be delighted to test out the boosts whenever the patchs come to GMS.[/quote]

20% avoid, AND damage reduc?
that would make whs much better at survivability :O

NL got the shortest end of all the sticks during revamp.

Dang. Gone are the days of everyone playing a NL because they were the best 1v1 DPS, it's kinda sad. Long live Angelic Buster I guess.

[quote=Experiencing]I think I'm pretty decent. I found ways to beat each different class in pvp (except pallys), and I'm not even funded.[/quote]

^ She beats me in PvP quite a bit.

I think I'm pretty average, I got 21k range with lv1 DH and lv13 expert. I hit between 50k to almost 100k per main star.

@above: I said that I did pretty well (I think earning 25k points in Pyramid PQ is doing well). But why are we stigmatised as a lower tier class...there must be a reason for that. Same thing goes for why evans and BaMs are thought of as hackers...there's a reason for that.

As I realized just recently, we are one of the worst but not the worst. I'll edit my original post to clear something up.

Hater's gonna hate bro.
I don't wanna go into all your points (which I don't agree, because you can easily overcome them if you tried), but I will go into the pyramid PQ (since I've done it countless times with several other characters & hermit).

I have a hermit unfunded (108). He DOES have the full 7th Anniversary set (All clean and no %), but even that can help you only so much. I also use Warrior Pots (from NLC) which gives 12 Wpn Att. I always match up and do my part for the team. Up until after wave 15 anyway, where using points becomes crucial. More than often, I end up doing fine or going to save others. If you got someone who has rage/bless, even better. It's all about playing smart! Including which parties you join (level ranges).

No, I didn't have a cygnus knight (118) until recently, which helped tremendously as well.

NLs aren't the strongest, but we don't suck. There's always trolls/pricks/haters.

[quote=underpaying]@voyance: Then you play the class because you like it(Which you stated that you do, which is awesome!), and yes that thread title would make a [b]LOT[/b] more sense and would actually be true

and ahaha why thank you!

Also side note, for your pvp thing, pvp is really all funding vs funding. Any class can be better than any class with the right funds.

Well it's actually..

Funding vs. invincibility skills vs. damage reflect skills, but oh well

I feel like the only reason that we are part of the "one of the worst" classes is because they just release stronger classes. (This also puts a lot of other classes in "one of the worst" ) They didn't make us weaker, they just put out classes that are naturally stronger. With that being said I prefer using the term "We aren't as strong as ___" instead of "We are one of the worst"

So here's the classes that this applies to assuming they don't have very much funding:

-Night Lord
-Bowmaster
-Wild Hunter
-Dark Knight
-Not sure about hero or paladin, haven't played an unfunded one
-Probably cannoneers
-Probably battlemages (Not sure about after their little revamp thing tho)
-Demon slayers (FOR BOSSING)

I would say phantoms but then they can just steal another class skill and be A OK[/quote]

This. NLs used to be a very strong class, even when funded, and I consider them to be the original or main thief class. Nexon just releases new classes that are stroner and stronger. And honestly those who say NLs aren't made for mobbing, well a lot of classes have better 1v1 skills and better mobbing skills.

If you're going to compare the unfunded with the funded, it's almost obvious the funded will win. And a funded Night Lord has a lot of avoidability, plus Shadow Shifter.

@chaiitea: I still wonder how mad Moltes is? (When will they make a Zapdos?).

@syrio: They got this skill where they jump around and shoot a (downward) AoE attack. When they start using that skill, they're just impossible to hit with a single target attack. Using shade split on them is stupid as they will kill you first before you kill them. It's not only me who has a hard time against them I've seen warrior classes (that isn't a DS) have a hard time against them. Mercs who are smart enough to not rely on ishtar in pvp are the ones I'm referring to.

Cheap-o birds?

My Articuno takes offense to that. :o

It's not just night lords like others have mentioned there are a few other classes that have the same issues. Night lords suffer from the not that many skills to use syndrome and the few attacking skills they do have need stupid requirements if you want to use the class to the max potential.

With that said Night lords have 5 buffs Shadow stars, Dark Harmony, Haste, Claw Booster and Shadow partner.

For active attacking skills we have Gust charm which has a stupidly long delay and the damage sucks and Shuriken Burst/Shade Split which have crappy damage and puts you in the scenario of you either 1 shot them or the skill is useless. The ratio for multi target skills to become useful in this game really sucks, its something like 1.45 Mobs:1 hit or something along those lines. I'm not completely sure on the ratio but the gist of it is for every monster you add onto it the amount of hits have to be 1 hit less than the amount of monsters (EX:4 monsters 3 hits 5, monsters 4 hits and so on). You might as well be using a 1v1 skill like quad throw if you are killing at an equal mob:hit ratio this especially holds true for night lords since the range on quad star is rather long compared to shade split why kill 5 monsters in 5 hits with shade splitter and take magic damage(ToT or any other place where monsters deal magic damage) when you can kill them 1 by 1 in 1 hit and take almost no damage unless you blatantly run into them and take touch damage.

u forgot WHs:
-we are sandbag in pvp, and can barely fight with super duper uber slow skill, even wild arrow blast is slow </3
-we are terrible mobbers, swipe sucks, DnS is more like a suicidal skill at high lv places with monsters that 2hko u
-decent bossing but our lack of survival skills (dodge rate, abnormal status resistance, damage reduction) make its harder when fighting big bosses
-SE and MW are only 2 pt skills we have, teamwork with others (especially DBs) is a little annoying cuz our skills push mobs

[quote=DistantSky]well, pvpwise, wild hunters start out with around 30% hp (with jaguar and feline)
and wild arrow blast, like all hurricane moves, is nerfed in pvp
not to mention our high hit box

training wise, they are a pot burner, without any % avoid or good def
and attacks are slow, in contrast to hermit/NLs

party wise, the only good thing we have is sharp eyes

bossing wise, 55% stance is nice, but id rather have 45% avoid
unless I have snow white, but even with 100% stance, they aren't as good as bossing as NLs[/quote]

Some changes made in Resistance Patch:
20% avoid/dmg absorb/Mp
5% crit boost
10% dmg boost for party (new party skill)

Also, assuming you fund your WH, you should be better at doing damage with afa while NLs hit cap with the first four stars and the other four stars (shadow partner) capping at 699,999
(correct me if I am wrong)

Both NLs and WHs have a hard time surviving and I will be delighted to test out the boosts whenever the patchs come to GMS.

@above: Shuriken burst is a dumb skill! Even if they gave it 500%, it still not effective since it doesn't penetrate through the target that much. I think a 500% shade splitter is more effective that 500% shuriken burst.

Gust Charm is also a dumb skill because it locks on to X random targets and push them back and doesn't re-lock to the next closest X targets. I wouldn't mind having a 200% gust charm if it fixes to relock to the closest X targets to push them back. Rely on gust charm to push back, you're dead considering how squishy we are.

5-star would be nice but would it be enough to compete against other classes? (assume 100k-2b funding). I'm starting to think they'll probably give us a hurricane-star version.

@underpaying: what if those certain classes that are stronger are pretty much 90% of the whole game? I know BMs have it bad too and a few others. I guess the title of this thread should be changed to "are we really one of the worst?". At least we got you to kind of represent what a beastly NL is

@DistantSky: Good to know that WHs are pretty bad too. I don't know how WHs work (never really see 'em that much)
@Laker1294: Are you sure Phantoms are worse than NLs assuming both are unfunded? Like NL with subis and everything.
@AngelicZyphr: Only make one if you really truly want an NL. I think a 6 star attack that does like 350% per star that's as fast as lucky 7 would probably place us in the top 5 in the DPS charts for 1v1.

idk im making a NL cause ive always wanted one but im not sure cause compared to other classes nowadays NLs seem weak like u said. i mean they arent even good in 1v1 compared to a db being able to hit 12 times with phantom blow. i think ms kinda forgot about nl they def need a better mob and 1v1 skill that gets more hits

Phantoms are weaker than night lords unfunded...

[quote=voyance]Please elaborate...(I'm not challenging you, I just wanna know)[/quote]

well, pvpwise, wild hunters start out with around 30% hp (with jaguar and feline)
and wild arrow blast, like all hurricane moves, is nerfed in pvp
not to mention our high hit box

training wise, they are a pot burner, without any % avoid or good def
and attacks are slow, in contrast to hermit/NLs

party wise, the only good thing we have is sharp eyes

bossing wise, 55% stance is nice, but id rather have 45% avoid
unless I have snow white, but even with 100% stance, they aren't as good as bossing as NLs

@experiencing: What hair is that~ It look like maybe uptown girl

[quote=DistantSky]forgot about wild hunters[/quote]

Please elaborate...(I'm not challenging you, I just wanna know)

Quad Star needs to take lessons from Illusion.

forgot about wild hunters