General

Actually sales wise, Wii U has done worse than Vita. And that's saying something

*logs in after sometime (I ain't been on here in forever thank god)* It's been about a year and Nintendo is still a mess. The Nintendo game release scene has been drier than an ashy arm during a summer heatwave.

[quote=bluebomber24]@AshleyAttacked: The bulk of your post I don't see what it has to do with my post at all. And I definitly did not in any way indicate that Nintendo would be successful by taking my guidance. I gave zero guidance.

As far as install base...that's why they are moving on to the NX and that's why they are doing their best to make Wii U gamers happy while they work on that transition. I mean they WERE successful with the Wii and they are announcing they console next year.

Also, releasing successful software is not "luck". You can't accidentally make a bunch of good games. Maybe one at extreme best. Wii U is currently making a profit and last I remember they would have to be in the Red for 10years plus before they would have to worry about funds. Specializing in third party is just silly for Nintendo.
[/quote]

I wasn't really intending to target you alone or personally in the amount of depth I did, mostly I just recognized elements from what you said in stuff I've read so many times before and its all just a whole lot of gross oversimplification and misunderstanding about how complex the situation really is.

Specifically, where you said:
Let's say the NX is basically akin to an Xbone/PS4 but better hardware since Xbone/PS4 was released with outdated hardware. If third parties can work with that, NX would have the superior hardware, the best first party IPs, and access to third parties

Again, and not meaning to repeat myself from the first lines, I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you...if I did. I was just addressing, like I said, some stuff that irks me in other sentiments posted here on basil and various other forums...and not to say they're stupid thoughts, they aren't, but to provide some instances in history that fly in the face of that sort of logic, good or bad, and just expose how much more complicated it is when you really get down to trying to make the decisions you can promise yourself that you feel the most confident about being right about. The situation about the controller is particularly telling, as well as the fact that xbox won, or at least had a noteworthy 'edge' and dynamic for two generations in a row with worse software than Playstation. Further, Xbox 360 significantly saved itself from its initial screw ups and ended up 'winning' the generation because it had the best 3rd party exclusives or timed exclusives. On the other hand, Playstation established itself in the first place, beating Nintendo and every far richer console without having ANY third party exclusives that they didn't cobble together from other up and coming no name companies, each side taking mutual risks. Also of note...another of the biggest determining factors for the Xbox 360 didn't even have anything to do with console specs...it was because xbox spent a hell of a lot more time and money building their multiplayer servers. In each of these points, making it all even harder with each side taking notes on their shortcomings (all of them except Nintendo, notably) and making massive strides to catch up. Sony was horrible last gen with regards to their controller design and server design, compared in both cases to xbox. Now it's basically a draw between the consoles and their respective controller. So you can't just do the obvious, you always have to do as much of the obvious as you can, all the while trying to figure out and take a guess at which innovation will be the next big game changer to make a huge change to the industry...and which innovation you'll have to focus on and include, along with all of your competition, not because you think itll put you ahead but because you know you have to to stay relevant. This generation the xbox one really stumbled with the entertainment hub direction they took, combined with the kinect which was kind of part of that whole direction. Sony didn't do any of that, sticking just to the basics and they got lucky. They were able to house more expensive hardware in their system for a cheaper price tag bc xbox one originally shipped with the $100 usd kinect. that really hurt them, and so far, though the consoles are young, its set xbox way behind. they've dropped the kinect, which annoyed me personally since I bought it and expected it to be something since Microsoft promised up and down that it would be...and in doing so are now cheaper than the ps4, while being only minimally, effectively unnoticeably weaker. It looks like that early screw up, mistakenly putting so many of their cards on the kinect being revolutionary, especially since they knew sony wasn't even researching the development of something similar.

I'm taking the risk at saying that could have been the generation losing move this early on mostly because they never had any momentum from the beginning compared to sony...and so far sony's momentum hasn't even slowed down, even in the month that xbox one's exclusive Titanfall released...and many expected it to change the game on sony. However, the month and the month after it came out the PS4 not only didn't flag, but, and no one, NO ONE, predicted this...the ps4 still outsold the xbox one for both of those months. Now that the xbox one has dropped the kinect and lowered its price by over $100 dollars...the ps4 is still not losing momentum. Now, and I think this is especially telling in a longer term more meaningful sense, the xbox has lost its hold on timed exclusives and general association with Call of Duty. The only replacement they have is Halo and that's not an annualized franchise. COD has now moved to ps4, which also has timed exclusives with battlefield and assassins creed, as well as all of the big name exclusives EXCEPT Halo. Bungie has given xbox the cold shoulder with Destiny, in favour of Sony. That's all one huge blow after another.

Obviously its still early and it can and prolly will change, prolly more than once, but it all just goes to show how utterly unpredictable it all is. You have to plan and research for all of these various contingencies, and many many more I'm sure none of us are even aware of or know about...and you have to do it all with just the right timing, a risk in itself, compounded by doing it all while keeping an eye on keeping it within a manageable price range. I wouldn't ever want to be involved directly with that.

The next new hyped up realistically, assuming they can make it work with any sense of immersion and playability is virtual reality. Oculus is obviously in the lead, but they lack the infrastructure to successfully launch on. Sony is up next, tethoring their version to the ps4 to lower price range and accessibility for consumers, and they have, all signs indicate at least, the most progress far along vr program. Obviously things will totally change if Microsoft ever bought out oculus in its entirety...that would be awesome. As someone who has both major consoles and the ability to keep up to date with gaming pcs as needed, I feel really excited about it all.

Regarding my statement about luck and software, I think you misread. I said that Nintendo lucked its way out of a 5th consecutive year without earning a profit by getting lucky that the Yen depreciated against the US dollar...and since 75% of Nintendo's earnings come from outside of Japan, bringing all that money from outside, into Japan, works favorably for them with the exchange rates.

@AshleyAttacked: The bulk of your post I don't see what it has to do with my post at all. And I definitly did not in any way indicate that Nintendo would be successful by taking my guidance. I gave zero guidance.

As far as install base...that's why they are moving on to the NX and that's why they are doing their best to make Wii U gamers happy while they work on that transition. I mean they WERE successful with the Wii and they are announcing they console next year.

Also, releasing successful software is not "luck". You can't accidentally make a bunch of good games. Maybe one at extreme best. Wii U is currently making a profit and last I remember they would have to be in the Red for 10years plus before they would have to worry about funds. Specializing in third party is just silly for Nintendo. This isn't about making profits on an install base in the short term. If they fail with a console, odds are its adequate return for 6-10 years and they just have to try again. If they succeed, its exceptional return for 6-10 years. Having to be at the whim of Sony and Microsoft consoles that are prone to thier own dumbasseries would only hurt them.

@burning

Yea...the treehouse and the other events had a lot of stuff that they didn't advertise at all that they were doing today. And what sucks is that a lot of it was good. PI mean people got hyped after the direct when they heard that Platinum was working on Star Fox. I am not familiar with the company but a lot of people love them and wondered why they weren't listed in the Fox trailer in the direct which is odd.

Looking at Nintendo as a whole starting from 3 days before E3 and this weekend Nintendo E3 in its entirety was solid. We have Mother 3 coming to virtual console, Smash direct, World Championships, SMTXFE gameplay and more via the Treehouse events, and a Splat Fest coming up after we just received free DLC today. Nintendo appears to have sparsed their content out very oddly and didn't communicate as efficiently a lot of things in the direct, like that Animal Crossing game being free. I don't think Nintendo realizes that their own fanbase doesn't watch a lot of the Tree house events, and non-Nintendo gamers definitely don't.

Nintendo's E3 event wasn't that horrible, it was okay for the most part, but definitely not an ugly disaster like a lot of people are claiming to be. Only game that caught my interest was Super Mystery Dungeon. and l'm not even 100% on buying the game in fear it will play too easy. l wish there were some good announcements to surprise everyone at the end but that didn't really happen.
l missed the direct, but at least Smash got some good content.
There were a lot of releases from franchises that people really love and hold dear that were simply weird spinoffs or didn't follow traditional elements to the games. l'll bet they're going to save the good stuff for NX!

So in light of this thread, I paid a bit more attention to the Nintendo booth today. The Star Fox Zero demo looks a ton better than the admittedly awful trailer. The graphics aren't impressive, but by sticking with rough geometries, simpler world lighting, and more straightforward textures, they got a game that harks closer to our memory of Star Fox 64 while getting 60 FPS, possibly 1080p, and the simultaneous cockpit view on the Gamepad. If I counted right, there were 10 demo stations for Star Fox Zero with what may have been at least 2 hour waits on each of them. For the rest of Nintendo's show floor, that had less variety this year than the last. This year, the Treehouse stage got physically bigger and there was a 30th anniversary stage where the Splatoon demo section was last year.

Nintendo's show floor did quite well this year. Microsoft picked up from last year's tepid response to Sunset Overdrive with overwhelming interest for Halo 5 Guardians. The line has been so long, that for today it had to be closed at 11 AM just so the people in the line could play the demo before the day ended at 6 PM.

[quote=bluebomber24]It would take 20+ years of straight up garbage for that to ever happen. Lets be real here, like you hinted in your post, Nintendo's IPs are the cream of the cream of the crop when it comes to first party IPs. You walk on the street and way more people will recognize Mario or get one random pokemon's name right before recognizing characters like Master Chief or Nathan Drake.

Let's say the NX is basically akin to an Xbone/PS4 but better hardware since Xbone/PS4 was released with outdated hardware. If third parties can work with that, NX would have the superior hardware, the best first party IPs, and access to third parties. It would be Super Nintendo/Wii era all over again. And as for Handhelds, Nitnendo has a strangle on that market outside of Mobile; an arena they are entering. I mean, Sony has listed thier PS Vita as a legacy system which is evidenced by Sony's coverage of them at E3. Nintendo's first party games always give Nintendo the chance to dominate the game market. Whether they do or fail to is up to them.

I agree with some of the things you said but there is just no way Nintendo ever needs to reorganize to a third party company. The E3 was bad and the Wii U, barring last year and its immediate future, is a fail. But they have succeeded way more with consoles then they have failed. And one bad E3, especially after a phenomenal E3 last year, is not decade-fail inducing.[/quote]

If it was that easy Nintendo wouldn't even be close to being in this position, nor would they have ever deviated from that formula since technically they created it.

To make it more recent...the Xbox 360 started off last gen with such a horrifyingly bad start that they came close to bringing down Microsoft if the class action lawsuits had worked in combination with the costs it took to pay refunds, repair machines and send out replacements. Remember, people were freaking out and xbox fan boys were reaching for their hand cream after posting 'xbox wins sony pony's(sic)' for 2-3 hours straight en masse on IGN, etc when the ps4 was reporting what turned out to be about 2-3% brick rates out of box (when the console is broken and worth what it weighs, like a brick.)

Now, compare that to the xbox 360 which debuted with 50% to 60% of every single console straight up failing out of the box...and sometimes the rates were reported higher. I've seen articles report rates well in excess of 60%

To help clarify what I'm getting at, after that, the xbox 360 wasted literally no measurable time and *trashed* ps3 for nearly the entire run of the ps3, even despite a successful launch diametrically opposite xbox 360's...before finally passing xbox 360 years later only because everyone already owned 1-2 xbox 360s.

To make it even more recent and relevant, if that was how it worked...no one would even be making consoles, much less investing HUNDREDS of billions of dollars into just researching what they'll finally release in the end...and we'd all just buy a PC.

The moral of the story is seen everywhere in any type of product in business. Especially for gaming...everything conspires against every console to make sure that it fails...the only reason one is a success and the other is a failure is because someone elses hundreds of billions of dollars was spent just barely better or worse than your own. And probably (I'm being somewhat facetious) by luck.

By your assessment, Nintendo could have avoided all of this if they had just picked you and followed your guidance.

There are just so many myriad factors that determine any net movement either way in the console race that it's just not that simple. They pay hundreds of billions of dollars towards planning, paying hundreds, if not thousands, of people just to work on it. Microsoft alone invested $100 million dollars into research and development on just the CONTROLLER. Clearly they thought something like the controller stood the chance to make all or at least a sizeable part of the difference...and this given how successful their controller was last gen and still is today. Despite all that, and the fact that they probably could have just up and ported it to the xbox one and put that 100 mill towards something else -- like I'm trying to say, tho, they just weren't comfortable or confident enough, even with all of their hard bought, both in sheer money and in time spent, research and data, added to all of the data learned from the past 2 big generations...and history gleaned dating back even before that...that it would be that simple and not the thing that lost the 'console war' for them. It's never that simple in this industry, and presumably a lot of others, tho those are generally less contentious than the gaming industry, especially now that the video game industry is pulling ahead of the film industry - not just Hollywod, but the film industry worldwide, in terms of spending and profits to be made and lost.

Regarding Nintendo, I don't think, though my opinions are probably less valuable than the paper you're reading this on, that it even comes down to that. I think it's far, far worse. Sega was putting out success after success until one single console almost put them out of business and they were just barely lucky enough to salvage a third party existence making bad games. Nintendo failed to make a profit in the entire 4 years leading up to 2015. That's 4 years of being a company living on savings without making a drop of income. That's disastrous. This year they finally pulled a profit, but even this profit, according to themselves, is largely because of the US dollar and other currencies where they have significant holdings and earnings appreciating in value relative to the Yen back home. That's called getting lucky. They didn't earn any of that...they got lucky that 75% of their earnings were outside of Japan and thus they were on the better side of the currency exchange rate. They simply benefited from the downturn in Japans economy because the vast bulk of their holdings are foreign and not domestic. The other factor was because of the release of Smash Bro's and Mario Kart. And that's it. Nintendo lucked its way out of a 5th year of being in the red because the economy sucked in the other part of the world and they released some successful software. The same software would have made them exponentially more profit if they didn't have the dead weight of their consoles dragging them down and forcing them to release their software only exclusively in house hardware and could instead release it for ps4 and xbox one. In fact, the ps3 and the xbox 360 could also run both of those games, and PC's obviously could.

Let's look at this.

They pull off success with the release of the insanely popular Super Smash Bro's and Mario Kart...by releasing it to the Wii U which has an install base of only 9 million units. However, given how dedicated many of their fans are, you have to cut that install base down, almost by half, to around only 5.29 million units since their fans all own at least 1.7 units each.
Since Nintendo fans never stop using their Nintendo consoles, even after 30 years, and every single one of them purchases every single Smash Brothers and every single Mario Kart, and, for clarity at risk of stating the obvious, any Nintendo fan that purchases a duplicate, as either a replacement or out of, quickly regreted, enthusiasm, will return the extra copy in under 30 days and, without fail, before the order is mistakenly submitted as having been a net sale of 2 game (spelling intentional) to 1 Nintendo fan so that they don't get Satoru Iwata's hopes up and later dashed and thus preventing the necessity for me having to account for anything like that. I guess it's safe to assume that the final, statistically accurate number of units in the install base capable of playing the game is accurate at exactly 5,294,117.6470588 units.

Now, had they released it to the ps4, ps3, xbox one and xbox 360...that's as follows:

xbox 360 - 78 million units install base
xbox one - ~15 million units install base
playstation 3 - 80 million units install base
playstation 4 - 20 million units install base
Source for these numbers is Forbes, for all, except Xbox One which isn't releasing regular numbers. Last gen data is accurate up to some point in 2013.

That's a potential 200 million extra units, but since a statistically relevant number of those consoles are in the same household as one or more of the other consoles, I'll trim the number down to exactly a 161,000,000.5 million unit install base. Complicate this further by the fact that console gamers are (censored) casuals, and you have to further lower it to exactly a 135,101,019.42 million unit install base. Multiply or divide this by the fact that their are probably exactly ~833ish million PC's capable of playing either game, which, however, needs to be lowered since most are government owned and the other 10 are owned by people who wouldn't play the game even if they could and it was free...so, the final install base, in addition to (above) Nintendo's current Wii U install base of 5,294,117.6470588 units + the plebs 135,101,019.42 million units + the 100 mil PC's with owners promising to buy the game when it get released in 10 months and you have an install base of exactly 240,395,137.06705 units which Nintendo should be profiting off of if only they put their brains to it.

Put further in perspective:

Nintendo itself, with all of its 50 years of success, is only worth $22 billion USD market cap. Market cap is equal to total number of outstanding shares times the value of one share.

Some companies that only release video games:

Electronic Arts - $17.7 billion usd market cap
Blizzard/Activision - $16.4 billiion usd market cap

Source -- also Forbes.

Nintendo would have so much to gain as a third party game developer that specialized in third party software and handheld consoles and dropped the dead weight of major release consoles and all that associated research and development...not even forever, but just for long enough to realign and reorganize themselves. Who knows, if they publicize their scaling back and the eventual return to making full on consoles, imagine the hype and free press they'd get. They could probably just mail out some letters to their fans and ask them for a solid and have them call some press phone numbers and tell places like yahoo news and Huffington Post that Nintendo is back, maybe even bringing Nintendog's with them.

People want Pokemon when we just got ORAS? Are you serious?

They didnt win E3, but it wasnt disgusting.

@SoulBlade: On Twitter Iwata made an apology. I think the puppet thing was amazing and it's the most fun I had all E3.

[quote=AshleyAttacked]...and they may need to reorganize themselves as a third party company releasing games for ps4/xbox/pc, etc, instead.[/quote]

It would take 20+ years of straight up garbage for that to ever happen. Lets be real here, like you hinted in your post, Nintendo's IPs are the cream of the cream of the crop when it comes to first party IPs. You walk on the street and way more people will recognize Mario or get one random pokemon's name right before recognizing characters like Master Chief or Nathan Drake.

Let's say the NX is basically akin to an Xbone/PS4 but better hardware since Xbone/PS4 was released with outdated hardware. If third parties can work with that, NX would have the superior hardware, the best first party IPs, and access to third parties. It would be Super Nintendo/Wii era all over again. And as for Handhelds, Nitnendo has a strangle on that market outside of Mobile; an arena they are entering. I mean, Sony has listed thier PS Vita as a legacy system which is evidenced by Sony's coverage of them at E3. Nintendo's first party games always give Nintendo the chance to dominate the game market. Whether they do or fail to is up to them.

I agree with some of the things you said but there is just no way Nintendo ever needs to reorganize to a third party company. The E3 was bad and the Wii U, barring last year and its immediate future, is a fail. But they have succeeded way more with consoles then they have failed. And one bad E3, especially after a phenomenal E3 last year, is not decade-fail inducing.

Meh. For what its worth...and that isn't much since I'm not even a fan of Nintendo, preferring to stick to the more disparate and maybe more 'diverse' games seen on pc, xbox and playstation...I feel slightly annoyed by the tone Nintendo takes. Mainly from the point of view of its treatment of players, customers, shareholders and especially its employees. Sure, on one hand since I have a certain bad taste about them and it might be nice to forget them and let them go broke and poof, theres the undeniable fact that Nintendo is one of the most important and influential factors in gaming today and through history. They make games of literally EXCEPTIONAL quality that reach to the stratosphere in terms of creativity and innovation...and, specifically going back to the quality factor - it's becoming more and more apparent and important to have a company around that holds themselves to the highest standards of quality in the production, creation and maintenance of a game, before release and not through the addition of day zero/one patches and on going emergency patches (looking at you Ubisoft and 353 industries for the horribly awful disasters seen in the releases of Watch Dogs, Assassins Creed Unity, and Halo: The Master Chief Collection - which was so horribly inept that a game so obviously made and played for its multiplayer aspects as Halo DIDN'T EVEN FUNCTION, from what I read, for anything outside of the solo campaigns). Having Nintendo around to set the bar and show everyone how it could and should be is very important moving forward. For the families of the employees the situation is even more crucial.

To that end, however, as someone interested in gaming, etc...I'm totally baffled at how horrible Nintendo is managing itself. Studying (loose term, I'm just gamer who reads articles about games for fun) the history of gaming, consoles like Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo Cube were seen as horrible failures, one (Sega) resulted in the corporation nearly dying and relegated it thus forward to making only software. This is relevant because both of those systems, I think, sold, off the top of my head (I'd research but it doesn't impact the veracity of what I'm saying either way.) around 10 million units each, worldwide, in at most 1.5 years. Nintendo's Wii U has been out for nearly 3 years, on the other hand, and has yet to sell 9 million units. Compare this to the Playstation which, in March, surpassed worldwide sales in excess of 20 million units, in under 2 years. The Xbox One stands with worldwide sales presumably near, but not lower than 15 million units. All of this and yet Satoru Iwata is refusing to even entertain the notion of stepping down as Nintendo's president. That boggles my mind...it's unheard of for a president in his position to weather situations like his company is in without the guy at top resigning...if only to retain some semblance of confidence from shareholders that the sinking ship will right itself...in fact, president's resign typically after, and for, far, far less than what this guy has overseen happen. This guy has presumably lead and had as close as possible to a direct hand in the path being taken by Nintendo; has been integral in the leadership beneath him and ok'd each of them in their station...and yet with such incredibly well received titles as Mario Kart, Super Smash Brothers, etc...the Wii U has been unable to move units with any noteworthy improvement. The problem is not the games, etc, the problem is the console, Wii U, and the way in which Nintendo has continued to conduct itself. Yes, the new Nintendo NX may or may not hold promise for the company, but its far too little and too late for Iwata to have not resigned.

The Wii U is dead and was a flop of historical importance. What was at one time optimistically explained as Nintendo sticking to its guns and refusing to follow the lead of other companies is, at this point, little more than stupid arrogance, basically a big finger at the customers and people who've invested in the brand Nintendo represents, whether as customers or shareholders. I feel a sense of offense when I read stuff about Nintendo going forward, especially with Satru Iwata at top. The path followed and started by this guy is just arrogant and stupid to an almost obnoxious degree. They've entirely alienated third party companies, through, reportedly, their direct personal treatment of individuals in many third party companies, as well as the obnoxious treatment of companies as a whole. They then turn around and make snide comments about companies refusing to work with them, hinting that this is because of some sort of sucking up to 'big money' and not valuing Nintendo as a company and its customers. They've taken pot shot after pot shot at various other entities and just behaved like buffoons. It's one thing to do this in the face of mocking competition...but they're doing this, at least the situations I'm referring to and which inform the how and why the company annoys me...at situations that are their fault because they're mismanaging their entire company. These people have made their living by money invested in them and this sort of amateruish behaviour is no way to treat the investment of customers, shareholders and even, perhaps especially, employees outside of the fray just trying to do their job and feed their families...

Going forward, Nintendo rightfully deserves to fail and should fail and continue to fail. Hopefully it can catch itself before the failure is too much to salvage themselves and the consoles they put out, but I really hope its before they fall too far to be able to reorganize as at least a software and video game company. My personal assessment of the situation is that Nintendo is going to seriously struggle to stay as a console oriented company...and they may need to reorganize themselves as a third party company releasing games for ps4/xbox/pc, etc, instead. I think they'd be able to seriously succeed at that. Satoru Iwata needs to resign and the company need to stop doubling down, over and over, on his stupid and shortsighted business plans. This isn't a matter of sticking to your guns and trying to stay unique by refusing to to sell out and follow the trends of other companies. Nintendo, your company is dying. You're doing the wrong da...dang (edited for basil) thing and annoying and disheartening so many in the process.

[quote=Skyenets][Honestly people saying Nintendo is "disgusting" need to sit the hell down and chill. My heart broke when I saw Iwata's apology on Twitter. The Nintendo show was fun to watch. I had a great time looking at it which I can't say for most other companies.[/quote]

There was an apology? [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO9aLJBIDls]No one appreciates "my puppet body is ready?"[/url]

[quote=Skyenets][b]Nintendo does Directs all over the year, announcing new games and showing new gameplay through them.[/b] E3 is not the only time they announce new games like other companies do. They spread it out. Of course there will be less titles for Nintendo. They. Don't. Throw. It. At. You. All. At. Once. Of course it's going to feel watered down when Sony/Square Enix announce that they're going to be making Final Fantasy 7 and Kingdom Hearts 3 that will probably be released in 2020. But hey hype right?

People complaining about Pokemon need to chill. Pokemon has NEVER been announced at E3. Chances are they will do this at worlds if they're going to announce a game at all. I'm glad they're not rushing the game because the quality in XY and ORAS was noticably lower than older games.

Nintendo isn't having a bad E3 year. Nintendo is just having an average year. Next year it's going to be the Legend of Zelda's 30th anniversary and Pokemon's 20th anniversry. The new console is going to be shown probably as well. That's three pretty massive things they probably need time to prepare for.

Honestly people saying Nintendo is "disgusting" need to sit the hell down and chill. My heart broke when I saw Iwata's apology on Twitter. The Nintendo show was fun to watch. I had a great time looking at it which I can't say for most other companies.

Y'all ungrateful pieces of ass.[/quote]

I don't think most are ungrateful its more disappointment. They didn't HAVE to show us anything new. But Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, SMT x FE were just videos they showed at the last E3 instead of showing anything new or gameplay. Literally the exact same clips. Thats at best lazy. I mean when polling has over 50% not liking it including the Japanese audiences, then something is clearly wrong.

Prior Nintendo directs does not excuse a poor performance nor are those directs catered towards non-nintendo gamers. Like I said before, Nintendo IMO has a fantastic lineup of exclusives that will make me play those systems more than any other during the holidays. But the presentation sucked and most likely failed to motivate any non-nintendo gamers to invest in Nintendo.

I'm critical of Nintendo because I want them to suceed as much as possible not because I'm unsatisfied or ungrateful of what they have done so far. The last time Nintendo apologized they bounced back at a level that is unparalleled and rare for most businesses. It may break some hearts but if an apology means a potentially stronger Nintendo, I'll take it any day of the week.

[b]Nintendo does Directs all over the year, announcing new games and showing new gameplay through them.[/b] E3 is not the only time they announce new games like other companies do. They spread it out. Of course there will be less titles for Nintendo. They. Don't. Throw. It. At. You. All. At. Once. Of course it's going to feel watered down when Sony/Square Enix announce that they're going to be making Final Fantasy 7 and Kingdom Hearts 3 that will probably be released in 2020. But hey hype right?

People complaining about Pokemon need to chill. Pokemon has NEVER been announced at E3. Chances are they will do this at worlds if they're going to announce a game at all. I'm glad they're not rushing the game because the quality in XY and ORAS was noticably lower than older games.

Nintendo isn't having a bad E3 year. Nintendo is just having an average year. Next year it's going to be the Legend of Zelda's 30th anniversary and Pokemon's 20th anniversry. The new console is going to be shown probably as well. That's three pretty massive things they probably need time to prepare for.

Honestly people saying Nintendo is "disgusting" need to sit the hell down and chill. My heart broke when I saw Iwata's apology on Twitter. The Nintendo show was fun to watch. I had a great time looking at it which I can't say for most other companies.

Y'all ungrateful pieces of ass.

[quote=Burning]I haven't gotten around to watching the presentation, but I thought it must have been good because there were long lines for the Star Fox Zero demos on the show floor.[/quote]

From what I saw the layouts and games they revealed after their direct was pretty good. Why they chose to announce games like Stella Glow outside of the direct is beyond me.

I was pretty disappointed too. Not much to say here, but I guess Nintendo has their E3's every month or so during their lame N directs anyway.

Meanwhile
RYU HYPU

I really liked the Mario maker and Mario song video. Also star Fox and smash was good. Xenoblade didn't get hardly any coverage Wtf. I get the feeling they are saving up for a great year next year but who knows

Didn't really expect much this year when already pulled the smash card sunday and even then it was sad that it got leaked the day before.
No pokemon thought would happen since it's not unusual for pokemon to be biyearly tho a bit sad didn't show off more mystery dungeon since they announced that recently.
Already saying no zelda for wii u at E3 back in like April was also a bit sad.
Probably will get hyrule warriors on 3ds tho since had a lot of fun playing it with my roommates on the wii u and am a sucker for wind waker.
Was hoping for maybe an actual metroid game though or something to help fill the void of no "big" titles this year since stuff like ORAS and Smash was used up last year.
Don't really know what people were hoping for at E3 this year from them when in the past year they already threw so much non stop at us with ORAS, Smash, Majora's Mask, Hyrule Warriors, Spaltoon, Mario Kart 8, Dlc for smash and mario etc, and so on.

I haven't gotten around to watching the presentation, but I thought it must have been good because there were long lines for the Star Fox Zero demos on the show floor.

@CygnusBabii: If you like Marth/Lucina you will probaly LOVE Roy. Its early, so I could be wrong, but he just seems like a far superior versions of them. Ryu comes with a Stage for $5.99. He is cool and interestingly VERY [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiZvYvjaNwc]Street Fighter-like[/url] so it depends on your Smash preferences.

The Kirby Stage is dependent on your love for it. It basically plays the same as it always did.

The new Metroid killed any good spirits I might have had for this company. Burn it to the ground.

Overall though I think this E3 was great, if only because of Sony's conference. Definitely my top pick. You just can't beat TLG.

[quote=bluebomber24]I have to give them credit for the Smash Direct and the world tournament (the end parts) the day before though. I never spent money so fast on game DLC before and the Mario Maker race was more entertaining than Golden State VS Cavs. So combined I give them an average E3 as my final verdict.[/quote] yeah I agree. I just want Nintendo to remember when they used to be everybody's favorite we loved them for their charm and their consistent output. Iwata made the blow easier to bear tho. I hope better stuff comes via future directs as well (Major props for the smash direct!) The tournament was actually fun to watch towards the end. I still feel bad for Cosmo those wall jumps were painful to watch. Btw, is the smash dlc (3DS) worth it?I haven't purchased any of the new characters I have gift cards lying around and I wouldn't mind them being spent on smash if the new stuff adds value.

I have to give them credit for the Smash Direct and the world tournament (the end parts) the day before though. I never spent money so fast on game DLC before and the Mario Maker race was more entertaining than Golden State VS Cavs. So combined I give them an average E3 as my final verdict.

for fire emblem fates, it took me a while to realize aqua was singing in english
i still need info on preorders, and a set date qq

edit: after looking at the treehouse live thing for fire emblem, it's not even close to being ready for an english release to be japan's (june 25). would be rly cool to see it very early into 2016 bc my heart can't take it

It was alright. It wasn't like super-bad or anything like that. The best way to describe it is like this:

Two years back? Bayonetta 2 was revealed as an exclusive title.
Last year? Smash and a new Wii U Zelda title were announced.
This year? Hmm... Starfox, I guess? Nothing really loud and super-fantastic...

i thought it was okay. there was nothing that i wanted to buy but it wasn't horrible.
i also thought the girl that contributed to the making of yoshi's woolly world had really great english.
a bit of a british thing going on there.

@CygnusBabii: Well Iwata has essentially apologized so they know they done bad. Which is probably the best thing to happen for them today, as I will give them credit for being able to bounce back.

If I was part if their damage control I would have a kick ass direct in NOVEMBER if not August. And no puppets....I mean I could care less about random CEOs I never heard of coming on stage for a presentation but I also haven't watched sesame street in a long long time.

[quote=bluebomber24]@CygnusBabii: I see Wii U NOTHING like Vita.

Smash and Splatoon are major sellers based on global sales that came at different parts of the year. Those games make me want to play Wii U whenever I am bored. Vita has nothing to make me even look at it. And based on that link and the games I plan to buy I don't see Wii U marginilzed in the near future.

That doesn't excuse their E3. Sony teased a bunch of stuff that we don't know jack squat when they will be released. Yet their event was entertaining. Nintendo already said they had phenomal Zelda U footage...but they didn't show it...why?[/quote]

I knew forgot something I meant to mention Splatoon. It ALMOST makes me want to justify a Wii U but for now I'll just play it at my friend's house lol it's just with my interests in mind, that list doesn't excite me I can't but hope for beefier offerings. I also agree with you on Sony. I've never owned any of their consoles (I've had a psp tho *cringe*) but they genuinely made me excited. Microsoft did too. IM LOOKING AT YOU FALLOUT 4 AND HALO <3 and I was saying the exact damn thing about Zelda U I have no clue why Nintendo is afraid of saying that they need more time or that it won't come out for a while. Their silence just leaves us in the dark and allows hate for the brand to fester.

@steve30 right? I came from work hoping for something new and I was disappointed with everything

@CygnusBabii: I see Wii U NOTHING like Vita.

Smash and Splatoon are major sellers based on global sales that came at different parts of the year. Those games make me want to play Wii U whenever I am bored. Vita has nothing to make me even look at it. And based on that link and the games I plan to buy I don't see Wii U marginilzed in the near future.

That doesn't excuse their E3. Sony teased a bunch of stuff that we don't know jack squat when they will be released. Yet their event was entertaining. Nintendo already said they had phenomal Zelda U footage...but they didn't show it...why?

Yeah in my opinion I found it pretty disgusting....I was hoping for a new Pokemon game or something hinting towards one but not a crumb..

[quote=bluebomber24]Yeah the E3 was horrible. But you already said it yourself you find the Wii U yucky so that says alot.

Despite their lackluster E3 they showed enough prior to that which will be making Xenoblade and Mario Maker guaranteed buys for me. Star Fox I need to see more first.

And saying the lineup next year is dry is misleading http://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-of-the-nintendo-e3-2015-release-dates/1100-6428215/

Again, there E3 was disgusting, but their lineup in the immediate future is not.[/quote]

Im saying. I find the Wii U gross because it's like the Vita's cousin. They are capable of cool things, but they're generally marginalized for most of the year. Im not saying that the Wii U is barren but come on. It's lineup is basically a barrage of Nintendo IP and the occasional good third party e.g. Xenoblade, Wonderful 101 etc. Let's not forget the 3DS started the same way when it came out when it's lineup consisted of basic titles. Luckily, Nintendo made up for that many times e.g. ambassador program ( I bought my 3DS on launch day ), smash 4, zelda remakes, fire emblem, 4 pokemon titles, xenoblade, animal crossing, backwards compatibility, and much more. When you come flying out the hype station with games people want to play and buy, it's hard not to throw money at nintendo. I actually bought a new 3ds to play xenoblade chronicles. But I digress.

Mario Maker was interesting but it only reminds me of all the those brawl stages I made that remain unplayed. Customization is cool and all, but I personally don't find the creating part "fun".

Yeah the E3 was horrible. But you already said it yourself you find the Wii U yucky so that says alot.

Despite their lackluster E3 they showed enough prior to that which will be making Xenoblade and Mario Maker guaranteed buys for me. Star Fox I need to see more first.

And saying the lineup next year is dry is misleading http://www.gamespot.com/articles/all-of-the-nintendo-e3-2015-release-dates/1100-6428215/

Again, there E3 was disgusting, but their lineup in the immediate future is not.