General

[quote=AquaBoogieXD]To my knowledge, it's the same now as it was before BB or Ascension. Or am I missing/misunderstanding something?[/quote]

beholder was a natural transition from dk to drk, like other 4th jobs

dark impale ruined that, and brought on more changes that worsened its effects e.g. potato and dark thirst, and ultimately RED

big bang didn't do nearly as much as that. ignore it for now.

@iVege: To my knowledge, it's the same now as it was before BB or Ascension. Or am I missing/misunderstanding something?

[quote=AquaBoogieXD]what happened that made the Dragon Knight a Dark Knight?[/quote]

beholder

it made more sense before ascension

edit: or big bang

@iVege: Yeah, my post was a mess at best. I suppose what I'm saying is that it's nice that there's some consistency with the class as a whole, as opposed to Warrior in training > Specialized Warrior with spear > Dragon man > Dark man. There's a lack of consistency there (what happened that made the Dragon Knight a Dark Knight?). At least with Berzerker > Dark Knight there's some consistency, you can understand a crazy spear swinging maniac turning into a dark, malevolent warrior.
Dunno where you're going with the 3rd and 4th points though, I'm just talking about class themes.

[quote=AquaBoogieXD]It doesn't particularly bother me. Provided the class changes in a positive way and is consistent with regard to what it's changing into (bit of a contradiction, but let's roll with it), I'm all for it. The name of the class doesn't bother me that much, and it's nice that DrKs are becoming more like their 4th job earlier.[/quote]

what you're saying is too vague for me to comment on

and 4th job is the follower to 3rd job. 3rd job is the leader of 4th job.

see? having a history/old/veteran means nothing. it's all about who's stronger/higher advancement/funded.

that is what RED is trying to tell us.

It doesn't particularly bother me. Provided the class changes in a positive way and is consistent with regard to what it's changing into (bit of a contradiction, but let's roll with it), I'm all for it. The name of the class doesn't bother me that much, and it's nice that DrKs are becoming more like their 4th job earlier.

[quote=darkspawn980]since we tro-paying, i have to say that in the last few days, just -reading this made me pumped and wanting to get an xbox

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/MetalWolfChaos?from=Main.MetalWolfChaos[/quote]That looks absolutely glorious. I'd just play it on my cousin's Xbox though; I don't think there are any other Xbox games I'm interested in getting.

I named my spearman "DrkDrag0nite" just to match!
Because, "Dark Dragonite" sounds like "Dark Knight" + "Dragon Knight".... no?

The fact that it's also a pokemon's name just adds to the novelty

[quote=darkspawn980]since we tro-paying, i have to say that in the last few days, just -reading this made me pumped and wanting to get an xbox

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/MetalWolfChaos?from=Main.MetalWolfChaos[/quote]

I too wish I could enjoy "Burning American Freedom".

since we tro-paying, i have to say that in the last few days, just -reading this made me pumped and wanting to get an xbox

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/MetalWolfChaos?from=Main.MetalWolfChaos

[quote=cookie4mesos]...Tsundere? Kuudere? Jerk with a heart of copper (it's not gold)? Jerk with a heart of jerk? I don't even.[/quote]

It's meant to show anger.

duh.

[quote=cookie4mesos]

Because I'm sick and tired and I want a break from school and I'm confused about my immediate and long term future and I'm in a literary mood and firetruck.[/quote]

I know that feel. I too am experiencing this, sans the being sick and literary mood parts.

[quote=iVege][url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxSymbolism?from=Main.WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic]What Do You Mean It's Not Symbolic?[/url][/quote]This was my first instinct, but I can never be sure with you.

[quote=cookie4mesos]Also, why the bold and italicize the ar? Or Knights, for that matter. Is there some deeper meaning to your formatting that I'm not getting? >_o[/quote]

[url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FauxSymbolism?from=Main.WhatDoYouMeanItsNotSymbolic]What Do You Mean It's Not Symbolic?[/url]

[quote=iVege]I meant I love you like I [i]loved[/i] D[i][b]ar[/b][/i]k [b]Knights[/b].

As if you're worthy of my romantic affection. Hmph!

You just threw in 3 TV trope articles in 1 post. why.[/quote]...And now I want to reference more TvTropes articles, albeit at least one is common knowledge for our demographic and widely used regardless of TvTropes.

Storge/Phileo?
Also, why the bold and italicize the ar? Or Knights, for that matter. Is there some deeper meaning to your formatting that I'm not getting? >_o

...Tsundere? Kuudere? Jerk with a heart of copper (it's not gold)? Jerk with a heart of jerk? I don't even.

Because I'm sick and tired and I want a break from school and I'm confused about my immediate and long term future and I'm in a literary mood and firetruck.

[quote=cookie4mesos]Oh damn it, reinforcing your Bi The Way status.[/quote]

I meant I love you like I [i]loved[/i] D[i][b]ar[/b][/i]k [b]Knights[/b].

As if you're worthy of my romantic affection. Hmph!

[quote=cookie4mesos]...@Plusle4eva: I'd be willing to accept a Heterosexual Life Partners / Vitriolic[ish; a bit] Close Friends arrangement between John and Owlface for 44 Moon.[/quote]

You just threw in 3 TV trope articles in 1 post. why.

[quote=ChaosKong]Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't dragon roar get reskined and renamed into beholder's scream?[/quote]

No, it received quite a few changes.

My ign was dark/evil to begin with before third or fourth job was even an idea.

I'll only miss Dragon roar and pulsating dragon's blood. R.I.P

[quote=ChaosKong]Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't dragon roar get reskined and renamed into beholder's scream?

It's the only dragon related skill I'm gonna miss but, if the new one has the same feel I won't mind.[/quote]I believe the range is also reduced.

Regardless, in this case, what I'm missing is the aesthetics rather than the mechanics.

[quote=iVege]My IGN was based off dragons too! Since Newte is the combination of an archaic spelling of Newt (Ewte) with Newt, and Newts are related to salamanders, and salamanders are commonly associated with dragons (see: Fairy Tail)! Omg if Dragon Knights are removed, my IGN will lose all meaning!

I knew I should've used Newtes instead, and not have used it for some throwaway character. I could've become the amphibian Goates/Sheepes.[/quote]My IGN had little meaning in the first place, woohoo! :[b][/b]D
Are you really that into Fairy Tail? I got kind of tired of it- I've dropped it twice.

[quote=iVege]It doesn't matter as long as I love [i]you[/i].[/quote]Oh damn it, reinforcing your Bi The Way status.
...@Plusle4eva: I'd be willing to accept a Heterosexual Life Partners / Vitriolic[ish; a bit] Close Friends arrangement between John and Owlface for 44 Moon.

[quote=iVege]145 * 3 (Berserk 4) if I remember right.[/quote]That looks a lot more familiar; for sure it was 145% per hit max at some point. I don't remember 135% being a particularly noteworthy percent in those terms... and now my memory is conflicting on that.

My IGN was based off dragons too! Since Newte is the combination of an archaic spelling of Newt (Ewte) with Newt, and Newts are related to salamanders, and salamanders are commonly associated with dragons (see: Fairy Tail)! Omg if Dragon Knights are removed, my IGN will lose all meaning!

I knew I should've used Newtes instead, and not have used it for some throwaway character. I could've become the amphibian Goates/Sheepes.

[quote=cookie4mesos]I have so much trouble keeping track of what opinions you have on what. For clarification, do you like Dark Knights, and why or why not?[/quote]

It doesn't matter as long as I love [i]you[/i].

[quote=darkspawn980]135% *4 if i remember right[/quote]

145 * 3 (Berserk 4) if I remember right.

[quote=darkspawn980]135% *4 if i remember right, but fury was boosted by almost triple damage or something, so it made buster obsolete. chaos made buster 170*4, making it better in 1v-3[/quote]Oh, [i]riiight[/i], some of it's coming back to me, but I the specific numbers aren't coming to mind. Hmm... I still can't seem to find sources for old skill data.

Damn, this talk is making me want to log on and do some mindless grinding... which reminds me that I still have a ton of MS video clips that I never turned into a video. If I weren't busy and sick right now, I'd probably binge on my archives.

[quote=GunsTheSparkle]No, it was after that. I forgot which patch though.[/quote]Ah, k. If I had actually payed attention to updates and their chronology, I would probably have this down. ~_~

@cookie4mesos: No, it was after that. I forgot which patch though.

[quote=cookie4mesos]It's been so long, there have been so many updates since, and somewhere in between, I stopped caring, so... no, I don't really remember, haha. It was 170*3 pre-BB, right? How'd it change in BB? I can't seem to recall.[/quote]

135% *4 if i remember right, but fury was boosted by almost triple damage or something, so it made buster obsolete. chaos made buster 170*4, making it better in 1v-3

[quote=darkspawn980]big bang destroyed it damage-wise remember? then chaos came and it got it's damage boosted and that's when buster revived, then ascension came, nerfed it, and gave us impale.[/quote]It's been so long, there have been so many updates since, and somewhere in between, I stopped caring, so... no, I don't really remember, haha. It was 170*3 pre-BB, right? How'd it change in BB? I can't seem to recall.

@cookie4mesos: big bang destroyed it damage-wise remember? then chaos came and it got it's damage boosted and that's when buster revived, then ascension came, nerfed it, and gave us impale.

[quote=darkspawn980]big bang destroyed buster pretty much, but it gained the extra attack and it was still useful, i think it was ascension that killed it for real.
berzerk will be renamed to reincarnation[/quote]Did it really start all the way back then? Damn. I could've sworn Buster was still in good shape for a while after Big Bang. Ascension was no doubt the final nail, though. Do you know where I could find an archive of the past skill changes? I tried filing through the SP extractions, but I didn't find a list of changes for Big Bang (although I did find Ascension).

[quote=GunsTheSparkle]I always thought Dragon Wisdom made us more like vampires or something rather than dragons.
You and me both. Being gone doesn't help either.
Dragon Buster pretty much died when Impale happened. Having to put points into Endure didn't help matters though..[/quote]...Yeah.

When did Endure get added? Was that Ascension? I worked out out so that I'd max it later, since it's not really needed 'til later, and by end game, there's a surplus of SP anyway.

[quote=AllThatEnergy]Why does everyone name their class according to the Job name? Name it something epic![/quote]I "borrowed" my IGN *cough,* and it has nothing to do with my class. Regardless, what Shinki said.

Now you know how shadowers feel when they took away our precious Band of Thieves!

and assaulter...

[quote=AllThatEnergy]Why does everyone name their class according to the Job name? Name it something epic![/quote]

dragons are pretty epic though, even on the literal sense since plenty of epics speak of them

Why does everyone name their class according to the Job name? Name it something epic!

[quote=cookie4mesos]I'm not disappointed insofar as I don't really have any expectations from Nexon or MapleStory. I am a bit saddened because of the nostalgia factor, and I really did enjoy the dragon theme and skills. Optimum damage and quick leveling were never focuses of mine (although I was interested in theory and application of the former), so it was more a matter of mechanics and aesthetics for me.

However, Fury and Roar are the only dragon-identifying skills that are remotely relevant anymore, and with there being more skills than ever, their value in the identity of the class has been heavily diluted. Wisdom has no visual relevance to dragons; Blood has been removed long ago, and back it the day it was more relevant for the animation than it's skill effect; Buster's been dead since... what patch was that? I suppose there's still Berser... or is it called Dark Force? I don't even know any more. Regardless, it's not a great connection either.
...Did I miss anything?

Along with the drastically quick leveling through lower jobs (and post-Tempest, the job advancement levels being reduced), the Dragon Knight has been dead for a while in my mind (although not my heart). [/quote]
I always thought Dragon Wisdom made us more like vampires or something rather than dragons.

[quote=cookie4mesos]
@iVege: I have so much trouble keeping track of what opinions you have on what. For clarification, do you like Dark Knights, and why or why not?[/quote]
You and me both. Being gone doesn't help either.

Dragon Buster pretty much died when Impale happened. Having to put points into Endure didn't help matters though..

I also named my DrK based on 3rd job. His name is MrDragonFace, but I don't really mind the change from Dragon Knight -> Berserker. I just wish they didn't take out Dragon Roar

[quote=cookie4mesos]I'm not disappointed insofar as I don't really have any expectations from Nexon or MapleStory. I am a bit saddened because of the nostalgia factor, and I really did enjoy the dragon theme and skills. Optimum damage and quick leveling were never focuses of mine (although I was interested in theory and application of the former), so it was more a matter of mechanics and aesthetics for me.

However, Fury and Roar are the only dragon-identifying skills that are remotely relevant anymore, and with there being more skills than ever, their value in the identity of the class has been heavily diluted. Wisdom has no visual relevance to dragons; Blood has been removed long ago, and back it the day it was more relevant for the animation than it's skill effect; Buster's been dead since... what patch was that? I suppose there's still Berser... or is it called Dark Force? I don't even know any more. Regardless, it's not a great connection either.
...Did I miss anything?

Along with the drastically quick leveling through lower jobs (and post-Tempest, the job advancement levels being reduced), the Dragon Knight has been dead for a while in my mind (although not my heart).

---

@iVege: I have so much trouble keeping track of what opinions you have on what. For clarification, do you like Dark Knights, and why or why not?[/quote]

big bang destroyed buster pretty much, but it gained the extra attack and it was still useful, i think it was ascension that killed it for real.
berzerk will be renamed to reincarnation

I'm not disappointed insofar as I don't really have any expectations from Nexon or MapleStory. I am a bit saddened because of the nostalgia factor, and I really did enjoy the dragon theme and skills. Optimum damage and quick leveling were never focuses of mine (although I was interested in theory and application of the former), so it was more a matter of mechanics and aesthetics for me.

However, Fury and Roar are the only dragon-identifying skills that are remotely relevant anymore, and with there being more skills than ever, their value in the identity of the class has been heavily diluted. Wisdom has no visual relevance to dragons; Blood has been removed long ago, and back it the day it was more relevant for the animation than it's skill effect; Buster's been dead since... what patch was that? I suppose there's still Berser... or is it called Dark Force? I don't even know any more. Regardless, it's not a great connection either.
...Did I miss anything?

Along with the drastically quick leveling through lower jobs (and post-Tempest, the job advancement levels being reduced), the Dragon Knight has been dead for a while in my mind (although not my heart).

---

@iVege: I have so much trouble keeping track of what opinions you have on what. For clarification, do you like Dark Knights, and why or why not?

@darkspawn980: well it apparently stacks with copies of itself and has no delay.

I guess it's something .-.

@GunsTheSparkle: why do we even need defense? it doesn't reduce %damage either, and it's still probs the crappiest party skill in the game because of these two facts.

[quote=darkspawn980]roar's great tho, so is wisdom.[/quote]

I preferred roar without the stun but it's w/e. Wisdom is the only skill I'll ever need.

On that note, why is IW still garbage? Unless, I missed an update where it became better.

[quote=iVege]FYI, I have a Dark Knight, so I've already passed the Dragon Knight stage.

Leveling beyond 3rd job was enough for me. I still have Dragon Fury on my keyboard because of its hitbox, and I try to appreciate the Dragon Knight skills, but I simply can't. It doesn't matter how hard I try; it doesn't change the fact that the class sucks.[/quote]

roar's great tho, so is wisdom.

[quote=DJSkittlesXD]try harder next time.[/quote]

FYI, I have a Dark Knight, so I've already passed the Dragon Knight stage.

Leveling beyond 3rd job was enough for me. I still have Dragon Fury on my keyboard because of its hitbox, and I try to appreciate the Dragon Knight skills, but I simply can't. It doesn't matter how hard I try; it doesn't change the fact that the class sucks.

[quote=iVege]No, Dragon Knights were possibly the worst designed class in the game. Nexon did a good job in removing it.

The only reason why they should exist is so that Spearmen can advance into Dark Knights. After RED, Berserkers take that role so it doesn't matter.

Don't see why anyone would miss such a horrible class.[/quote]

try harder next time.

[quote=icedemon9]For some reason, I want to call you out on the trolling but at the same time, I think the thread you locked explains it all. Sadly, the comments that were deleted were to be used as proof. Instead, I'll just watch this thread and say "mehhh" about all this. [/quote]

Disagreeing with your opinion = trolling.

Lol okay.

I locked that thread because a mod was being a meanie poo-poo, by the way. I didn't want it resurfacing.

[quote=iVege]Don't see why anyone would miss such a horrible class.[/quote]

For some reason, I want to call you out on the trolling but at the same time, I think the thread you locked explains it all. Sadly, the comments that were deleted were to be used as proof. Instead, I'll just watch this thread and say "mehhh" about all this.

I can be a person who adapts to changes easily up to a certain point. Certainly, I will miss the times of the pre-bb DK training I did back then but at the same time, I want to look forward to the changes that will be given to us. So, sacrifice I must do in order to optimize my enjoyability of the game. Even if they moved the name to 4th job (heh, get it? Sacrifice? Cause I don't....). :b

the reason why I made my drk: roar, crusher...

Maybe it will be Dark knight from 2nd job
like> luminous to luminous, or demon avenger to demon avenger

Actually, I wont miss them. Yeah, Dragon Roar was cool and all but changes are part of life.
Also, I made my Drk pre RED so i can experience the life of the Dragon Knight.

No, Dragon Knights were possibly the worst designed class in the game. Nexon did a good job in removing it.

The only reason why they should exist is so that Spearmen can advance into Dark Knights. After RED, Berserkers take that role so it doesn't matter.

Don't see why anyone would miss such a horrible class.

I can't keep up all with all these changes, nexon has killed a class that has once attracted me.

its really sad, i started maplestory just when the 3rd job came out (in GMS) and the most epic skill was dragon roar, now its gone

You could get banned because of that IGN