KMST KMST 1.2.480 Adventurer Revamp and Skill Changes

@TripleBladez: eh, at least we throw stars like a freaking beast ninja. Shads, no matter how awesome they are, will be as awesome as the concept of a NL.

@Xehanort: Roughly the same, though Shad's still have the biggest edge on us with survivability.

@TripleBladez: Man, this revamp has really began to grow on me thanks for doing all the calculations n stuff! Just one last question, are we better than shads now or are we just about the same?

@Xehanort: Indeed. You don't have to be completely overpowered like Kaiser; it just ruins the balancing of all the other classes. Criticals are pretty amazing if you think about it even though it's multiplicative now. When it was additive, it used to be like 2x your normal damage. Now, we're getting close to reaching it with all these Maximum Critical Damage boosts (as well as things like SE).

@TripleBladez: well, I don't care if we're not stupidly op like kaiser. Mid is good, and crits are some pretty amazing crap, and would result in a notable bump. I'm just glad NLs aren't the very bottom now.

@Xehanort: I would estimate us to be middle-of-the-pack with room to grow into the next tier (if I included our 1.6x average Critical Damage along with other factors like Venom's 3 line DoT, Bleeding Toxin's 1 line DoT, and these Mark of the Assassin/Night Lord), but still not top tier like Kaiser. It's still better than being in the bottom tier, which was pre-RED. That's for our 1v1, at least. Mobbing-wise, we gain roughly a 2000% boost, but we're not a true mobbing class at the end of the day. Again, if you had to rank classes in order, someone has to be at the top, and someone has to be at the bottom.

@TripleBladez: that's weird. They should probably resolve that one way or the other. And with this buff, are NLs close to being on par with the other classes? (Not counting the broken shade split, of course.)

@Xehanort: That's my concern. Although Max said on his blog that it procs at a 100% chance, I remember looking at the numbers in the SP extractions, and they weren't exactly 100%. There's like two versions of the Mark of the Assassin, and Mark of Night Lord. One is the real one showing the skill percentage layouts, and the other is a dummy skill showing variables with similar numbers.

If you look at the skill tables on Southperry right now, Mark of the Assassin has "40% chance to leave mark, Explosion Damage: 30% + 1% damage per character level, Max Enemies Hit: 2, Stars Replenished: 2". Mark of Night Lord has "Explosion Damage: 60% + 1% damage per character level, Max Enemies Hit: 4, Stars Replenished: 4".

I'm not sure if the skill is taking the readouts from its own, or from its dummy counterpart. If it's the latter, then Max is right (in it proccing at a 100% chance), and a similar case would be BaM's Body Boost taking the readouts from its dummy skill (which had lower skill percentages) than the actual skill. If the skill reads from its own (and it's supposed to), then Mark of the Assassin and Mark of Night Lord both proc at a 40% chance, not 100%.

@TripleBladez: ok, so it looks like mark of the night lord is useful during bosses, but it doesn't look like it activates 100% of the time o.o

[quote=Xehanort]Are there any videos of a revamped NL bossing yet?[/quote]

There's not many people that play NL's in kMST from what I've seen.

Here's a bossing video of a level 131 NL doing Ranked Dojo, though. Note that Shade Split is glitched, and is doing 15 hits with SP instead of 6 hits with SP.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTczNzU2NTIw.html

Are there any videos of a revamped NL bossing yet?

@PoesLaw: Yeah, Sudden Raid takes that long to cast. If you were wearing a Garnier, which is our normal (6) speed Claw without Claw Booster, it would take over 3 seconds to cast the skill.

I could calculate the criticals, but I would have to account for our Critical Rate of 65% with base 5%, Critical Throw, and Hyper Critical (without any outside factors like Critical Ring, Critical Nebulite, Critical Card, Critical Inner Ability, Self-SE, etc), and averaging out the Critical Damage when you do hit a critical versus when you non-critical. The average Critical Damage would increase as your Critical Rate increases up until our 1.6x average for when you do hit 100% Critical.

So, it's basically if you want our average Critical Damage with 65% Critical, or our 1.6x Critical Damage with 100% Critical (which would show the max potential).

@Satoshi1234: I would say it's harder. Avenger was pretty easy to jump shoot with as far as I remember, and it's 30 ms slower than QT at faster (2) speeds. Our Shade Split right now is 90 ms slower, and I'm sure you'll agree it's kind of hard to jump shoot with. Of course, the new Shade Split does get reduced to Avenger's speed, which would help immensely. Other than those, Taunt is 750 ms at faster (2), making it 150 ms slower than QT. I think it'll be like where you use the skill, but it doesn't necessarily activate until you land on the ground if you jump with it, so you might have that earthquake vulnerability (which shouldn't be too bad since most monsters don't have a ground pounding skill, and you'd likely be spamming QT at bosses that do like Von Bon for instance).

[quote=Undexme]It takes that amount of time to cast sudden ride[/quote]

Thank you.

[quote=PoesLaw]You might as well if you have a minute.

BTW, what's the point of using 2.37 seconds as a measurement?[/quote]

It takes that amount of time to cast sudden ride

Erhm... That Showdown Challenge skill...
Is it possible to attack while maintaining the proper "jumpshoot" rhythm, like how you can with QT and were just barely able to do with Avenger?
Or does it make you stay on the ground before finishing the animation and cause earthquake vulnerability that NLs really shouldn't have?

Hmmmm the avenger stars flying around everywhere don't look fluid...Well guess they can't really do anything about that

[quote=TripleBladez]You can see how big our increase is if I applied criticals.[/quote]

You might as well if you have a minute.

BTW, what's the point of using 2.37 seconds as a measurement?

I wonder where it puts us in the dps list
RED is great for us, im very excited

@Undexme: No criticals are factored in. You can see how big our increase is if I applied criticals.

Did you include hyper critical in your calculations? Thats an other 10

Meh i can only imagine how much id dmg when this comes...-drools

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTczMjg0NDUy.html?f=19400124
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTczMjg4NDQ0.html?f=19400124
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTczMjkwOTIw.html?f=19400124
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTczMjkwNDEy.html?f=19400124

Added one new video for Hermit, and one new video for NL if anyone didn't watch it yet.

I still have my doubts about Mark of the Assassin and Mark of Night Lord proccing at a 100% rate due to raw extractions from yesterday, and Locked's updated (but not error-free) skill tables.

Also added calculations for Sudden Raid showing how pathetic our current one in gMS is compared to the new one in RED. The new one is actually useful every 30 seconds if you're training, although, you'd most likely spam Taunt for the debuff, and EXP earned/item drop rate increase while using Four Seasons every 8 seconds since that's still our strongest mobbing skill.

Edit: After talking with Max, ETSH actually gives a 25% Total Damage boost to all attacking skills. I've adjusted the calculations for the new Shade Split, Taunt, and Quintuple Throw, and Sudden Raid.

[quote=caryofilles]As long as they fix Challenge Showdown(Taunt) to work with Shadow Partner, this would be a very nice update to us.
Having our main mobbing move give us +30% exp/drop from any monster we attack with it INCLUDING bosses. That's just pure awesomeness!
(Assuming that even if we 1hko mobs we still get the +30% exp/drop which didn't work with our old Taunt)[/quote]

It doesn't work with SP right now or something?

Edit: Nvm, just read it in the original post.

As long as they fix Challenge Showdown(Taunt) to work with Shadow Partner, this would be a very nice update to us.
Having our main mobbing move give us +30% exp/drop from any monster we attack with it INCLUDING bosses. That's just pure awesomeness!
(Assuming that even if we 1hko mobs we still get the +30% exp/drop which didn't work with our old Taunt)

The only thing I could add would be faster buffing and more defence/hp. Other than that, I am happy. A lot more damage on Quad throw, a new mobbing skill and we didnt get changed to drastically to look like a complete new class.

aww just saw the vid for night lord....Kinda disappointed right now....

@Davyn : lol, forgot about shadow web. I would remove that and replace it with a passive buff(master lvl 10. +1% per lvl) that gives +10% Evade chance(like shadow shifter), 10% hp, and 10% wep/mag def. It's not a whole lot, but it's still better than our currently useless shadow web and does a little good to our below average survivability.

I'm excited. I feel like it's a nice step in the right direction. Although we certainly didn't get the overhaul that Bowmen, Magicians, and Warriors did, it is better than nothing (which is all I have come to expect from Nexon, really).

My complaints still hold that our buff times are absurdly high and shadow web is near-useless along with the lack of draining skill, but the fact that they managed to fix Purge Area and Taunt tells me that they're starting to understand.

And I will be enjoying my double-flash jump for sure.

Nexon Nexon Nexon, disappointed with the changes compared to the other 3 classes

@CannonSpikes: Except Max also relies on SP's extractions as well, lol. He's not always accurate since his main is a BM, and not a NL.

I think we are underestimating Mark of Night Lord skill.. it looks really good imo

dear. lord. This looks insane. And this is just TESPIA. I think I died. <3

[quote=CannonSpikes]I think we dont need this thread to know whats going on in Red Update in kms
Everyone can simply reach Orange Mushroom blog by googling it. Close this thread no one cares.[/quote]
You jelly of our awesomeness? This thread is for us to talk about it/discuss it.

[quote=ObsidianFire]Am I reading the Mark of the Assassin/Night Lord skill right in that it turns just about every attack we do into a potential mobbing skill? 'cause that's one crazy-good way of fixing our lack of mobbing moves.[/quote]

Pretty Much.

I swear I know they were going to make their specialization something that explodes like in Naruto. But yeah at max level and 4th job, you do 60% + 3% per character level to 4 monsters around the marked. So at level 200 you're doing 660% damage to 4 monsters around the marked monster in addition to whatever else you're doing every other attack.

Flash Jump... is now a first job skill omg.

This update is pretty good IMO. We get a bunch of extra critical damage, and our quad star damage is increase by 85%

@TripleBladez : Well HoH mobs would most likely qualify as too short.. And I do like wiping out low lvl mobs on my way

@CowfrmSpace: Yes. I forgot to account for its second hit, but realized it on the 4th page. A vertical jump would be greatly appreciated considering our other "ammo" classes have one (e.g. BM, MM, Corsair).

Wait taunt is our 4th job mobbing skill? o.o My initial disappointment was mostly because I thought we still had no 4th job mobbing. That % damage is pretty impressive, but I still dislike the animation. A mobbing skill that debuffs, and boost exp, that's pretty cool. Also Qt got a pretty big boost, and there are plenty of crit damage boosts and expert handling now affects all skills. Can't complain about that. Just come on and give us a "grappling hook" skill! >.<

@tobitobi: True, but what monster would you be at that's short at a high level? I can't think of much compared to low level mobs unless you like to kill those for fun. xD

@TripleBladez : The point is, that jumping while using it doesn't hit small monsters. And now Shade Split and Taunt both have even lower downwards range, which means after this patch you basically can't jump-attack unless the monsters are taller than you can jump..

@tobitobi: Doesn't Sudden Raid have a better downward range than Four Seasons? You could use that I guess, albeit, every 30 seconds. Folks on SP were telling me how Sudden Raid isn't a useless skill, but I seriously haven't used it at all besides for the occasional fun times at PQ's to hit over cap.

Adding to what I said above in the edit, I've had trouble with Death Stars down range on small monsters.. But it has a down range of 50 compared to 5 on both Shade Splitter and Taunt.. That's just ridiculous.

@d34th: If it works the way we think it does, it would be...... 810% per FA at level 250.

@d34th: I would say the Minimum and Maximum Critical Damage boosts are really underrated. They're a big boost to your damage, and it only becomes even more valuable once we get the 999,999 damage cap lifted for a 50m one in tonight's "Unleashed" update.

@TripleBladez: The current Shade Splitter is pushing it for constant jumping at 690ms, in my opinion. And yes, we should definitely get some evasion rate.

Edit: I also just realized how both Shade Splitter and Taunt now have absolutely no downwards range, hurting our ability to jump-attack even more

[quote=d34th]So the changes aren't as bad as initially perceived. There are still some problems though. Our survivability is still the worst of all thieves since we have no defense and have no dodge still (even lose 15% avoid from expert). I'm not really liking mark of the night lord if all it does is release stars once something dies that you've marked. The fact that you have to kill the target makes it kinda pointless against bosses. But there are some positives: 4th job mobbing (haven't seen it but hopefully taunt is worth it as a mobbing skill), quad star gets a substantial damage boost, and we get some extra critical effects. Double flash jump, eh. It's good for getting around but you lose some amount of control with it. Still a problem of skills that are pointless, but all-in-all, it's not as bad as it first appeared. 3/5 until I know exactly what mark of the night lord does.[/quote]

From the way Max translated it; it sounds like just a second attack sets off the mark (meaning every other attack would be +% damage from the skill)

@tobitobi: Taunt is pretty fast in the videos, although I do agree with you that it could be lowered further. For comparison's sake, our old Avenger was 630 ms at faster (2). Old Shade Split is 690 ms, and new Shade Split is 630 ms.

I wanted better mobility (vertical jump and downward jump like Bowman), but I guess I can't complain with double jumping like AB's. Survivability is still a key problem since we're the only Thief (besides NW) that lack an Evasion Rate skill, a defense multiplier skill, and a damage reduction skill.

[quote=TripleBladez]@rk2006: That takes into account QT's Bonus Attack, which is treated as Quintuple Throw (at least for NL's who are level 195+).[/quote]

Right my bad, forgot about that, been just focusing on the stuff posted not the ones we already have. Thank you~

I'm gonna hate this so much if it doesn't change.. Taunt is an okay %-wise dmg boost, but it's so slow! 750ms on faster 2? That's gonna change our jumping around playstyle.. More like ruin it. I hope they change the delay there.. (For comparison; QT is 600ms)

I really hoped for better survivability too.