General

Bishop Rep best Rep. Italian by heart always jumps on the winning side

guys
bishop rep is best rep

The only problem I have with the MLC is that a lot of the members don't actively try to reach out to their community. I have yet to see a Bishop/Corsair/NW/WA/Mech/DS/Xenon/Aran/Phantom/Lumi/Shade thread made anywhere to try to get suggestions on what could be changed for that specific class.

Another problem is most of these people say just to contact them via twitter. Not everyone uses twitter, I have one yet barely know how to use it. For example MechSoySauce (Chuck) Just says to contact him on twitter or stop by his stream to voice opinions and that he doesn't check his MLC emails. How hard is it to check and reply to emails?

There needs to be a little more enforcement to reach out to the players and get ideas from posts on Reddit/Basil/Official Forums instead of letting the players come to them and wondering why they are never getting a reply because they did not use their representatives preferred form of contact.

[quote=bumbertyr]we do?[/quote]

Have you even read the NDA? There are a LOT of minute points. Of the members left who actively contribute, I can probably find a section of the NDA broken by almost all of them. Everyone that has been active in the community, searching for suggestions - those who want to help the game the most - are almost guaranteed to have broken NDA.
Talking about the NDA is breaking the NDA for christ's sake.

But, of course, no action will be taken as long as you continue to side with Nexon on everything.

I'm probably super late but I just wanna ring in my opinions and thoughts too because I just had one of those talks at work
I'll stay positive about MLC, for now~

I know the whole point of it is to improve maple and keep it fun. I'm sure @artasi is definitely working his ass off. You guys forget that he is also a gamer and wants to enjoy the game as well. I feel like you guys are being to harsh on him and you're expecting way too much. Try to put yourself in his shoes. There are a ton of bugs in the game but there's only so much you can do in a specific time frame. Fixing bugs while churning out new content? Nexon employees are humans not superheroes. As a working professional myself, I understand there is a lot of thought and planning when you're trying to make stuff happen. Nearly every aspect of the game is interconnected. How will this content affect that game? Will this new feature be game breaking? You really have to think about it when doing these kinds of stuff. You can't just throw new content in the game and see what happens. Once it's done it's done. You can't undo what happens. No take backs, no rollbacks; otherwise there will be uproar and rioting.

I actually like this new change regarding the councilor. This way they're not limited to what they can do. Although they may not be knowledgeable about certain classes, it actually helps because they're not bias. This kinda works as like a check and balance kind of thing. Say a councilor wants Phantoms to get 200% damage boost, another councilor can step in and say "That's not fair" or "That would make them too OP" rather than have a one man team deciding what should or should happen. It also kind of forces councilors to be more involved in the community. You have to listen to what players say. Everyone has different opinion about what should or shouldn't be implemented. I think it's the duty of MLC to take these responses and opinion and gather together and discuss about it. I do agree that the current MLC might be a bit too big. I do hope that a reelection happens soon as I believe some members are not aware of what they signed up for. MLC is still in it's beginning stages, so it does need to work out it's kinks, maybe set a clear objective. I don't know, I generally don't keep up with MLC news too much, but as it is right now, there doesn't seem to be many changes.

NDA is there for a reason. You can't tell people everything because some people might try to manipulate certain game variable and take advantage of some soon-to-come changes. For example, say MLC decided that CRA drops are too common and accessible. They then decide to nerf the hell out of the drops. If people get wind of this, they might buy up all the current supply of that item and sell it after the change has happen. This would make the market unnatural. Generally, you would want the market in a free flowing state, get some laissez faire going on.

TLDR; I'm kinda drunk right now, sorta just rambled and gave my opinions. I probably had some bad example or something in my essay, please don't hold it against me. I do hope that the community understands that changes don't happen just like that. I also see a lot of good replies in this thread so I do hope MLC members take the feedback and try to make the best of it.

Hm staying on topic. I'm gonna mention that Dragon Rider hasn't changed in a longgg time (I'm pretttyyyy sure). I used to train constantly at DRPQ when dimpq didn't exist. The limit has always been 5 and i would always get around 20% from it. (Maybe this info is outdated but I'm pretty sure of it since I Drpq for like 3 months)

I feel like MLC wasn't a very well thought out thing. It was delayed and hasn't shown much progress at all.
As soon as they got rid of job specific councillors they should've held another election. Like what in the world does a Shadower MLC know anything about Lore or Economy? (Not picking on anyone)
I also swear they talked about weekly meetings for the councillors. How would they have all 30+ join a meeting? How they didn't see a flaw in their plans when they included 30+ people with different lifestyles, jobs, hobbies, relationship is beyond me. Really should be a much smaller group.

I feel like we also never know what they're doing. What have they been doing for the past 6 months. Bringing up subjects that Nexon would never actually implement.

Smells like politics in here, "takes a deeper whiff", awh man, nvm. Just more legislation buisness. I'm guessing mlc was just another attempt at "bettering maplestory", right? Not that I want to be knee deep in this, but at the premise, who originally came up with MLC? Was it Nexon devs or the maple community? Is it both?

[quote=bumbertyr]we do?[/quote]

Im guessing you guys do indirectly like you would tell a good friend of yours, then it spreads through that way and there isnt a way to track back who said it, since there is no record if it was said outside of Maple.

@rachelll Thanks for agreeing with me. I kind of do hope Nexon and the members can use this thread to improve.

[quote=rachelll]

Regarding the NDA thing, that's exactly why half of the MLC actively break their NDA-- they don't benefit from it and the chances of repercussion is small[/quote]

we do?

[quote=xmaplelegend]You mean [b]non transparent[/b] and it isnt some, its the majority of people.

Anyone that does Business 101 knows communication and transparency is critical to success. Now the mlc is severely lacking both of them. How can the community trust you guys if you always just hide in the dark and not share what exactly you guys are doing? Most people don't trust you guys.

Now if you really wanted to help the community, you guys will constantly engage with the community and share with us what exactly you guys are doing and provide constant updates, so we the community know exactly what you guys plan to do.

Now this mlc has been up for 6 months and we heard nothing from you guys except for removing pq limits which some of us think, is a mask. As the thread starter said, some of you guys are boasting about this change. For all we know, Nexon probably didnt intend to have a limit, but maybe just saying it, so you look better. Also having a RnJ 5 day limit [b]would actually be better[/b]. The limit was necessary to make other players do the other pq's available instead of sticking to this 1 pq.

Youre saying 6 months or or so isn't enough time to implement changes but [b]thats not what we are asking[/b]. We want you guys to tell us what you been suggesting in those few months and all your ideas, so we can get a feel. You [b]honestly cannot say to us[/b] a few months is nothing, you had plenty of time to share with us what you plan to do, giving us updates etc.

Also, most people that were picked are pretty much just people who have a youtube channel and;or known in that world but doesn't know too much about that class or the game mechanic. I can honestly say I probably know way more then most of the members regarding the mechanics of Maplestory but nooo, mlc is just a popularity contest.

Also tell me, the NDA you guys signed, how does it even benefit you at all? The NDA is strict as. If the NDA is stopping you from communicating, maybeIf you guys should take the NDA issue to Nexon and make it so its more flexible as it isn't helping either parties.[/quote]

This pretty much sums up what most people are thinking right now and I agree on most of your points.

Regarding the NDA thing, that's exactly why half of the MLC actively break their NDA-- they don't benefit from it and the chances of repercussion is small

first I'd like to say artasi that i think you do an amazing job as the CM, and I really hope you feel appreciated for all the hard work you put in cause it really shows you care for the community.

reading what you wrote i can see the difficulties you guys face with having to be involved in so many places and then to keep hush hush on the things that are in the works, but have you guys
considered a system where concerns and ideas can be voted on by players? it would eliminate some of the issues of not being able to be in all places at once and would bring matters with higher player concerns to the attention of your team.

the closest thing to what im thinking is what playstation did here: http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/
Edit:
I do have to disagree with the pq change the MLC made. You made the MLC to improve maple by dealing with concerns from the players,
Not to predict the future and make changes behind closed doors without our opinions. The party quest changes from the patch should of been done as intended then the MLC should of asked players what they wanted done about them and went from there. As it is now it just makes it seem like we're not part of it

[quote=savaah]i want those mlc members to burn[/quote]

no pls.

[quote=tricks122]The problem is that some jobs are very clearly under powered, such as Corsairs and Buccaneers. In the case of Buccaneers, we're so horribly designed that we're one of the worst classes and having someone who knows a lot about that class is the only way you're going to fix it(Much less fix it without giving it the 'Nexon treatment'). Job specific positions make sense, but not in the massive, 'free for all' matter they're given out; people need to be chosen for their overall game knowledge AND expertise in a class, or they need to be chosen because they know how to fix a job's problems fairly. Cherry picking social media fanatics or streamers isn't going to fix this when Nexon calls for 'job experts'.

I think it makes sense to have job representative that ARE knowledgeable in the game, but not a job representative solely to have one. Many more prominent members of the jobs tend to be experienced in the game as a whole, but when they prioritize streamers or Youtubers over said players, yet still call for 'experts' instead of 'content creators', it just misleads the public, especially when I can't even find the applications for some councilors(And that seems like extreme cherry-picking).

The council COULD be something great, but some of the representatives intentionally provoked other people in their class with snide remarks instead of gathering their opinions like a sort of community manager, and some of them do seem to be taken because they stream/Youtube. Nexon has to have transparency on who they're choosing and why, as well as what the council is actually for; as long as that transparency doesn't exist, discontent is going to brew and I, among others, will not really see the effects of the council(If they have any) because everything is passing behind closed doors.[/quote]

Although I do agree about the need for specific class councilors, rather than trying to poke holes into the new "no class councilor" system, I'd like to see how it all plays out first. Only then, will I say anything good or bad about it, in my point of view.

[quote=cherrytigers]@tricks122 I do feel that misrepresented jobs need a say, and you're right about that, which is why I feel even more strongly about non-job specific positions. If they come together in an unbiased point of view and look at the big picture, they'll realize where many of the jobs you mentioned fall short. With job-specific councilors, their voices are drowned out, but without them, only the issues of the underplayed jobs will be seen.

I do see the problem with this though: As you mentioned, the "Nexon fix." In situations where the councilors agree that a job is broken, they should then reach out to the bucc community, when fixing the bucc job, instead of doing a fix to buccs that would otherwise take away from their original play style.

Some of the councilors are giving snide remarks? It's almost like they think they're really above other players now since they've been given a position then.

Leadership is not a position, and when an unqualified person is given a position like this, that kind of crap is bound to happen. Leadership is a state of mind, and those that don't possess the empathy or knowledge should not be in power.
If this is really what's going on, Nexon needs to find a new recruitment system and do a re-haul. Will this ever happen? Doubtful, as Artasi already stated that all current members will stay in seat.

On what basis and qualifications do Nexon look at when finding councilors? Is it simply popularity? I heard some unknown people also got seats in the council though, so I don't think it's simply popularity. Whatever the case is, Nexon was able to pick up some really knowledgeable council members such as Matt, the Wild Hunter, and Drean, the Angelic Buster.[/quote]

As stated in my reply to @tricks122 , I mentioned I preferred class specific councilors. The reason for that is because if a "random" group of 10-15 players come together, there's a [b]very[/b] high percent chance that none of them would even know or have prior knowledge of underplayed class gameplay, such as Angelic Busters, Jetts, BTs, etc. Ideally, there would be people who main a good chunk of the spectrum of available classes, balancing out the group's overall knowledge on all classes. Again though, that's simply how I see it as of now, but if the new system works out, great. If not, then underplayed classes are just going to spiral down.

[quote=jakbeer]We want to please the community with our work, but we would sink ships similar to World War II propaganda minus casualties[/quote]
>please community
well you sure did turn me off when you decided to hit on me those times

We want to please the community with our work, but we would sink ships similar to World War II propaganda minus casualties

So at least for me, the main beef with the NDA was I was afraid of it. I didn't want to be sued or drawn and quartered so I kept a lot of things on the dl. I admit that it was my own fault for not seeing exactly what the limits were (I hadn't even reviewed the papers I signed until just a couple days ago) However, we have had a bit of a discussion about it and I understand it a lot better. We are allowed to talk about topics we discuss and there should be a chat log of our meetings going up on our website. We have talked about what we can do to increase transparency since that is important since not only is it what you guys said you wanted, it's needed so the council and player relationship can be a positive one.
Also, if you guys believe that we should all burn or if we are MapleStory's Lost Cause, please tell us why! Give us suggestions, let us know what we can do better! Thank you for posting your opinions, ideas, and feedback; please continue to do so!

[quote=xmaplelegend]As I said if the NDA is the reason, then maybe take that up to Nexon as it is really messing everyone up. Im saying is that if the NDA was so bad, maybe you guys should of refused to sign up and stand up and say no, this is not what the community wants, we want more transparency, therefore can you change the NDA or something like that.

Although the blame can be placed on Nexon, you have to remember, you knew what you were signing up for, therefore fingers will be pointed at you as well. Thats the downside of signing up to a shady deal.[/quote]

it wasn't shady we all knew what we were signing into

@artasi Thank you for taking the time to type everything out for us. NDA really is a touchy subject, after all, and thank you for clarifying more about the new changes in the MLC.

I eagerly await any job revamps that may come in accordance to balancing the game and allowing every job an equal opportunity in killing and fighting whatever boss they so choose, with healthy limitations, of course.

I may utilize that thread that you posted at the end of your comment some time in the future if I feel strongly about something. I had no idea it existed. Thanks again for the communication.

[quote=cherrytigers]@siaty Thanks for the response.

I made a late edit, but I hope you can also address my second question, please! Thanks

"I am also curious now that the job specific seats are removed: What system do you guys now have for reviewing the viability of underplayed jobs that are in dire need of changes?"[/quote]

To address this and a few other concerns here -

---

On Job/Class roles and representation:

That was the original purpose of the class positions, to make sure that classes that are underplayed have the same amount of representation as those who are played the most. That goal was a bit convoluted, and ended up causing a bit of an organizational crises within the group.

Now, the group is directed as whole to be on the look out for any feedback or concerns from players, and to discuss those concerns within the group itself. This therefore relies even more on the Councillors we have to reach out and create a discourse where they see fit. If players are failing to see this happening, then let us know, either me or the Council President will bring this up and work to get someone out to create a topic on the issue.

We don't think a failure on a Councillors part means the failure of the Council, so let's try not to scream bloody murder about the group being the death of MapleStory.

In the meantime, if any player wants to propose a change or make a suggestion, please make a thread about it here: http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fforumdisplay.php%3F402-Council-Discussion%26nxid%3D6

----

On the PQ changes:

This was not discussed with the Community before hand as the changes were reveal to the MLC as part of upcoming patch discussion (therefore NDA, as it had not been announced). When reviewing the changes, they figured that the changes would outrage the community and requested emergency intervention on our part. We sent their concerns to the Development team and they sent back the response and implemented changes that can be found on the proposal that was enacted (http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1466392-ENACTED-Maple-Leaf-Council-Resolution-8-Memo-from-GMS-Development-Team%26nxid%3D6).

One thing to note: the Council did not specifically name PQs they wanted to "save" when making their emergency request, except for R&J, which there was a lot of discussion on. Our Development team made this decision. We also were not aware of the upcoming changes to Dimensional Invasion, so the Council did not have a chance to address this in the PQ resolution, as Dimensional Invasion is not a "PQ" per se.

---

On the NDA:

The NDA the Council is under is the same of our Forum Volunteers and any other Nexon community group. They are allowed to discuss things that are not covered by NDA and we plan to have Council Meeting chat logs available soon. Zelkova and SpiritofMir have been working hard on a website dedicated to the group that will allow this.

The NDA mainly covers:

- Upcoming, unannounced content
- Upcoming, unannounced planning/events
- Items that are being prepared to be sent to the Development Team
- Development Team responses prior to being enacted/implemented

There are other things, of course, but as you can see it mainly relates back to unreleased content that the Council may have information on (as such was the case with the PQ changes).

This isn't meant to keep the group from talking and discussing ideas with players, or to distance them from the typical player, but mainly so we can keep upcoming content a surprise, and not have backlash when things change or are removed from plans.

Here's a general life cycle of an issue and communication with the development team, as well as NDA status. This isn't 100% accurate to every issue, but this is generally the case:

1. Item brought up by players on forums/social media/in-game/etc.
2. Councillors discuss issues with players to gain understanding
3. Item brought to the attention of the Council
<Enters NDA>
4. Council creates resolution to affect said item
5. Resolution is reviewed by Nexon
<Leaves NDA if not held applicable. If regarding upcoming content, etc., remains NDA>
6. Resolution is sent to Development Team
7. Development team reviews Council request
8. Development team approves or denies Council request and provides reason
<Item is removed from NDA as soon as content is available and players are notified of developer response (if upcoming content, response will be published shortly after the patch)>
9. Council reviews developer response to see if follow-up is needed.

a. Council determines no follow-up needed.
b. Council responds to developer with follow-up. <Re-enters NDA, process repeats.>

---

On communication:

The Councillors are free of their own will to choose how much and how often they interact and communicate. If you feel that is not enough, then please take it onto yourself to bring up more topics directed at them to get their opinions. It is hard to be everywhere at once, and covers all the channels including in-game, social media, forums, etc. (I deal with this myself, so try to work with us when I say it's easier said than done to commit all your time and effort to one cause).

Some fault in communication does lie with me, as, again, it's hard to cover as much ground as I need to, but I try to do my best. I'm a one man team on MapleStory Community, so I'm trying my hardest to prioritize the MLC, as I believe it's an awesome project with huge community potential.

If we see inactivity, we will work to remove those members of the group. We are trying to work towards an active group of 10-15 members at the moment, and we are currently sitting at about 15 members who are always active in our chats.

---

Final notes:

Again, if any player wants to propose a change or make a suggestion to be taken up by the Council, please make a thread about it here: http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fforumdisplay.php%3F402-Council-Discussion%26nxid%3D6

Keep up-to-date on Council activities here: http://mapleleafcouncil.com/ and http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fforumdisplay.php%3F396-Maple-Leaf-Council%26nxid%3D6

[quote=cherrytigers] No need to have a pink bean BBQ tomorrow in front of my house. .[/quote]

I love you.

[quote=bumbertyr]What we've told you already is all we're allowed to tell, if you don't like it take it up with nexon. If you don't trust us then don't trust us, it's honestly not our problem, were just going to keep doing what we've been doing which is trying to make maple a better place.

The nda is strict, and if you've really taken business you know how messy things can get for breaking an nda, just because this is a simple volunteer position doesn't make the punishments for breaking nda ANY less severe.[/quote]

As I said if the NDA is the reason, then maybe take that up to Nexon as it is really messing everyone up. Im saying is that if the NDA was so bad, maybe you guys should of refused to sign up and stand up and say no, this is not what the community wants, we want more transparency, therefore can you change the NDA or something like that.

Although the blame can be placed on Nexon, you have to remember, you knew what you were signing up for, therefore fingers will be pointed at you as well. Thats the downside of signing up to a shady deal.

I cannot stress enough how we're not supposed to attack the council members, but rather, the system that they signed into. If it's an ineffective system, the fault does not fall to the council members. Some people just simply don't understand that and want to throw all the blame at the members, which a volunteers that receive no benefit what-so-ever.

[quote=xmaplelegend]You mean [b]non transparent[/b] and it isnt some, its the majority of people.

Anyone that does Business 101 knows communication and transparency is critical to a success. Now the mlc is severely lacking both of them. How can the community trust you guys if you always just hide in the dark and not share what exactly you guys are doing? Most people don't trust you guys.

Now if you really wanted to help the community, you guys will constantly engage with the community and share with us what exactly you guys are doing and provide constant updates, so we the community know exactly what you guys plan to do.

Now this mlc has been up for 6 months and we heard nothing from you guys except for removing pq limits which some of us think, is a mask.

Youre saying 6 months or or so isn't enough time to implement changes but [b]thats not what we are asking[/b]. We want you guys to tell us what you been suggesting in those few months and all your ideas, so we can get a feel. You [b]honestly cannot say to us[/b] a few months is nothing, you had plenty of time to share with us what you plan to do, giving us updates etc.

Also, most people that were picked are pretty much just people who have a youtube channel and;or known in that world but doesn't know too much about that class or the game mechanic. I can honestly say I probably know way more then most of the members regarding the mechanics of Maplestory but nooo, mlc is just a popularity contest.

Also tell me, the NDA you guys signed, how does it even benefit you at all? The NDA is strict as.[/quote]

What we've told you already is all we're allowed to tell, if you don't like it take it up with nexon. If you don't trust us then don't trust us, it's honestly not our problem, were just going to keep doing what we've been doing which is trying to make maple a better place.

The nda is strict, and if you've really taken business you know how messy things can get for breaking an nda, just because this is a simple volunteer position doesn't make the punishments for breaking nda ANY less severe.

[quote=xmaplelegend]Also tell me, the NDA you guys signed, how does it even benefit you at all? The NDA is strict as.[/quote]

The NDA they signed is so they could actually be part of the council. I'm not going to bother with your other points, but they probably can't talk about the NDA itself, nor about what's being considered/worked on by the council extensively. This is an issue that Nexon has to address, and not the council; the council isn't at fault for having to abide by the rules that Nexon places forth for being in the council, the fault would be on Nexon's part for imposing rules that lead to a lack of clarity and communication.

[quote=mageofbattles]The point of the Pq revamp was to try to tone down RnJ, while bringing up the other pq's to compensate. The reason why this hasn't really happened, is because RnJ's entry limit is non existent.

I'm sorry that some of you feel like the MLC is transparent, but just try to keep in mind that this is the first term, things are still a little shaky. Also, player suggestions take a long time to process through the system. A few months isn't enough to implement changes like we've been suggesting. Trust me, we've got some cool stuff in the works =3

Happy mapling~[/quote]

You mean [b]non transparent[/b] and it isnt some, its the majority of people.

Anyone that does Business 101 knows communication and transparency is critical to success. Now the mlc is severely lacking both of them. How can the community trust you guys if you always just hide in the dark and not share what exactly you guys are doing? Most people don't trust you guys.

Now if you really wanted to help the community, you guys will constantly engage with the community and share with us what exactly you guys are doing and provide constant updates, so we the community know exactly what you guys plan to do.

Now this mlc has been up for 6 months and we heard nothing from you guys except for removing pq limits which some of us think, is a mask. As the thread starter said, some of you guys are boasting about this change. For all we know, Nexon probably didnt intend to have a limit, but maybe just saying it, so you look better. Also having a RnJ 5 day limit [b]would actually be better[/b]. The limit was necessary to make other players do the other pq's available instead of sticking to this 1 pq.

Youre saying 6 months or or so isn't enough time to implement changes but [b]thats not what we are asking[/b]. We want you guys to tell us what you been suggesting in those few months and all your ideas, so we can get a feel. You [b]honestly cannot say to us[/b] a few months is nothing, you had plenty of time to share with us what you plan to do, giving us updates etc.

Also, most people that were picked are pretty much just people who have a youtube channel and;or known in that world but doesn't know too much about that class or the game mechanic. I can honestly say I probably know way more then most of the members regarding the mechanics of Maplestory but nooo, mlc is just a popularity contest.

Also tell me, the NDA you guys signed, how does it even benefit you at all? The NDA is strict as. If the NDA is stopping you from communicating, maybeIf you guys should take the NDA issue to Nexon and make it so its more flexible as it isn't helping either parties.

The point of the Pq revamp was to try to tone down RnJ, while bringing up the other pq's to compensate. The reason why this hasn't really happened, is because RnJ's entry limit is non existent.

I'm sorry that some of you feel like the MLC is transparent, but just try to keep in mind that this is the first term, things are still a little shaky. Also, player suggestions take a long time to process through the system. A few months isn't enough to implement changes like we've been suggesting. Trust me, we've got some cool stuff in the works =3

Happy mapling~

@cherrytigers
No PB BBQ?

@xmaplelegend I can't talk about our NDA. Yes, I had to read it before signing it like all NDA

[quote=bumbertyr]The following popular Party Quests will continue to not have any entry limitation:
Moon Bunny
First Time Together
Dimensional Crack
Forest of Poison Haze
Remnant of the Goddess
Romeo and Juliet
Lord Pirate

Dragon rider pq was not included.[/quote]

An actual answer to the original post on the 4th page lol. Thanks for the clarification but I'd hardly call those "popular" aside from r&j. The most popular one being dimensional invasion was nerfed and a lot of people weren't too happy about that.

[quote=bumbertyr]The following popular Party Quests will continue to not have any entry limitation:
Moon Bunny
First Time Together
Dimensional Crack
Forest of Poison Haze
Remnant of the Goddess
Romeo and Juliet
Lord Pirate

Dragon rider pq was not included.[/quote]

Sometimes, I wonder if Nexon even checks what they write in the patch notes. Moon Bunny and Kerning PQ are only available in Cross world PQ which has a 5 limit per day and it also appears once every few weeks.

How does those 2 pq's have no entry limitation, if we cannot enter them in the normal PQ lobby?

@siaty Exactly how strict is the NDA you signed. DId you read it before signing it?

@cherrytigers: I don't think I can provide this information because of NDA. All I can say is anyone is free to create posts with class suggestions on the MLC Nexon forum or popular Maplestory fansites. We are here to listen your feedback.

@siaty Thanks for the response.

I made a late edit, but I hope you can also address my second question, please! Thanks

"I am also curious now that the job specific seats are removed: What system do you guys now have for reviewing the viability of underplayed jobs that are in dire need of changes?"

@cherrytigers While there is no real description, I will try to make you one.
The Free Market & Economy position should evaluate our current economy (mesos and NX) in different servers. I guess he/she will focus to see if prices are fair in the market with the current mesos flow and probably discuss about methods to mesos sink if there is too much mesos in circulation. So this member should considerate other maplers opinions on their current market and discuss with them to provide solutions.

The following popular Party Quests will continue to not have any entry limitation:
Moon Bunny
First Time Together
Dimensional Crack
Forest of Poison Haze
Remnant of the Goddess
Romeo and Juliet
Lord Pirate

Dragon rider pq was not included.

@siaty Thank you for poking your head in! I am curious as to what exactly the role of the economy position of the MLC is. I am also curious now that the job specific seats are removed: What system do you guys now have for reviewing the viability of underplayed jobs that are in dire need of changes?

I really think the idea of the MLC if sorta of drifting away from its main goals... They're supposed to be the voice of the players, yet most of what I've seen is small personal opinions. It really needs to be a more open thing so players can see what is actually being brought to the table. I mean before I seen the post on the main forums about the party quest changes I heard of no talk about it, anyone else?
All players should be involved the councel should just be the middle men that brings it to the attention of GMs

[url=http://maplestory.nexon.net/community#%2Fshowthread.php%3F1472884-NOTICE-Organizational-Changes-to-the-Maple-Leaf-Council%26nxid%3D6]Please look at Artasi post about the latest MLC update here.[/url]

I am known under the MLC Jett Councilor, but we aren't only looking for our own job anymore. Please keep in mind we are volunteers (Maplestory players). We are here to hear people suggestions and doubts to find solutions how we could improve this game. I can confirm there is always people working for you guys in our group.

If you have any question, I will try to answer it.

[quote=tricks122]@cherrytigers Yeah, having played a Thunder Breaker to 120 before the revamp... the main difference was that Breakers actually had a good, long-range mobbing skill that didn't suck in third job. It's actually sort of impressive Nexon managed to get those concepts down, honestly. Where's some of that innovation NOW?

Some people are never going to get over 'class pride', and wanting to play this class because it was what they started with or used to be unique, and yet want to make it viable while butchering everything it once stood for(No offense to Shades; it's just... not a Buccaneer in the least). The main reason people always compare Buccaneers and Shades is that, well, they use 90% of the same equipment; in most cases, a weapon is different between two classes, so there's at least a financial argument to be made. It doesn't exist in this comparison, though, so at the moment... well, there's no reason to play a Buccaneer over a Shade, unless you enjoy Buccaneers more than Shades(I do!) or want to train endlessly with no benefit/goal beyond personal satisfaction(I don't!). Some players don't understand than slapping a pseudo-Shade method on Buccaneers is, well... silly.

@sabspirit Most mobbing moves will be similar, because only so much can be done. The real diversity should be in play-style, and unfortunately, Nexon generally fails here because their bossing requirements are imposing certain play-styles whilst shunning others, or because play-styles get meshed together in a 'revamp' that homogenizes the classes. The latter should be what Nexon focuses on, instead of making every move 'unique', make it so the flow or method of optimal damage/survival involves different aspects, whilst still remaining viable in bossing.[/quote]

Sorry I meant playstyle Xd

@sabspirit I like it. A rush/teleport type skill in bear mode would be excellent and allow beast tamers to solo cvel.

[quote=xmaplelegend]MLC isnt even useful. They have been out for what, 6 months or so, maybe more and what have they even done?

First few months we didnt even hear anything from them, then when the community started pointing this out, suddenly they come out a bit.

I also asked one of the members, what exactly have the MLC done and he avoided the question completely.

MLC is just useless, may as well just get rid of it.. One member has been perm banned from Maplestory. It just shows how incompetent MLC really is. Most members are just high profile youtube members or well known who is out of touch with community expectations. Lack of communication and transparency is also a flaw here.[/quote]

It started in May. Although I was the Phantom Councilor and we got our jobs changed to just general councilors, we are discussing some ideas for Phantom. I really am taking down the notes such as jumping Mille Augilles, Rapier Wit changes, a freaking flash jump that won't cancel Dark Sight. We also are looking at some broken areas which seem to have no story, or have really crappy rewards for such tedious work (NLC.)

@cherrytigers Yeah, having played a Thunder Breaker to 120 before the revamp... the main difference was that Breakers actually had a good, long-range mobbing skill that didn't suck in third job. It's actually sort of impressive Nexon managed to get those concepts down, honestly. Where's some of that innovation NOW?

Some people are never going to get over 'class pride', and wanting to play this class because it was what they started with or used to be unique, and yet want to make it viable while butchering everything it once stood for(No offense to Shades; it's just... not a Buccaneer in the least). The main reason people always compare Buccaneers and Shades is that, well, they use 90% of the same equipment; in most cases, a weapon is different between two classes, so there's at least a financial argument to be made. It doesn't exist in this comparison, though, so at the moment... well, there's no reason to play a Buccaneer over a Shade, unless you enjoy Buccaneers more than Shades(I do!) or want to train endlessly with no benefit/goal beyond personal satisfaction(I don't!). Some players don't understand than slapping a pseudo-Shade method on Buccaneers is, well... silly.

@sabspirit Most mobbing moves will be similar, because only so much can be done. The real diversity should be in play-style, and unfortunately, Nexon generally fails here because their bossing requirements are imposing certain play-styles whilst shunning others, or because play-styles get meshed together in a 'revamp' that homogenizes the classes. The latter should be what Nexon focuses on, instead of making every move 'unique', make it so the flow or method of optimal damage/survival involves different aspects, whilst still remaining viable in bossing.

@tricks122: if you'd like to go ahead seems interesting.
And tbh classes these days are just not as unique anymore as they used to be. People are suggesting keydown mobbing skills all the time which at the time was the unique thing about phantoms. The only really unique classes I can think of right now are dawn warriors, Luminous and marksman

@cherrytigers
I'm a really dedicated Beast Tamer main and I'm against moveable furious strikes for two reasons.
1. It will look silly haha
2. It will make our mobbing so much similar to phantoms, jetts and xenons.
My idea to solve this issue is peculiar haha
My idea is the we have a beginner skill thats like a worst version of teleport (not used for mobility at all). What it does is it makes eka the hawk quickly come and move you to the other side of one monster in front of you. This will reset your current attacking (you'll have to set up furious strikes again when used) but it should be enough. It will also have like a 2second Cd to not make it abused. This is my idea to give us BTs a unique way of bossing that is still balanced.
Maybe we might see the first bt cvellum solo
Just my thoughts

@tricks122 Something that I really loved is how Nexon made the distinction between bowmasters and wind archers during 2013 with the KoC revamp. I did not expect the WA changes at all, but I really loved how they made the jobs very different, when they were previously VERY similar when the KoC level cap was 120.
This is how I also feel about thunder breakers.
I also feel strongly about this with dawn warriors and the new (still in KMS) mihiles.
Night walker and night lord were also very surprisingly different, which was great.
Blaze wizards are also very different from any mages. Back in 2014, I was really wondering how they were going to change blaze wizards, and the changes they did were definitely unexpected and good.

As for buccs, I also feel the same in that buccs and eunwols should be VERY different. There would be no point in having two of the same job. I hope the division in buccs soon understands that the difference in jobs is necessary and should always remain.

NL is such a popular class yet they've failed to find a rep for it? Huh. I've seen people on MLC look down on Basil despite this community's leaders - there are people here that are trusted and don't need to stream/youtube to be noticed.
As for the PQs, I think it was a KMS thing that was to be implemented but they stopped most of it from happening.

I have my qualms about some of the MLCers...a few in particular where I've looked into and found nothing about their respective classes. I'm sure at least one got their position because they hang tight with the person who got to pick. Even though they've eliminated class specific positions which is good, some of them shouldn't even be there in the first place.

@sabspirit I would definitely agree that song of heaven does not need a change, but was also an advocate for furious strikes getting some sort of mobility, or at least having its starting/ending delay removed, as beast tamers have one hell of a time in hell gollux's jaw and chaos vellum and just bosses in general.

I see you're a beast tamer on basil. Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on a fix that would allow bear mode beast tamer the ability to fight these bosses without having to tear out their hair with the clunky play-style?

@cherrytigers The problem is that the Buccaneer community is divided. You have a lot of people who want 'viability' and changes that make the job a Shade clone(Why not play a Shade then?), others want an 'original' Buccaneer(Which would be heavily limited due to out-dated aspects) and others want a new style, but with old game-play mechanics and throwbacks(Which is where I sit, personally). Nexon has done nothing to make Buccaneers viable, even with their revamps, and so not many have confidence in their abilities(I don't, at least).

Job representatives are, in my opinion, important because every job experiences things differently. Some classes, such as Night Walkers, aren't broken(In a weak way, at least), but they may still have issues or short-comings that negatively affect their game-play consistently; having a councilor for them can be valuable to ensure that future content doesn't needlessly exclude them, and it can even be used to fine-tune events(Which often favor Arans, Hurricane classes, etc).

I don't doubt that Kyo(The Buccaneer representative) has some knowledge on the class. It's just odd to, in the case of current Buccaneers, prioritize an 'average' Buccaneer with community ties over an expert that can really dig in deep to make the class shine, without making it a Shade.

@sabspirit If you want, I can PM you a link to where a Basilmarket Buccaneer(Who apparently has several of them!) more or less wants to turn the class into a Shade to make it viable, and then critiques me for 'tearing down' his ideas without adding to them(Despite, you know, having suggestions on how things could be fixed). The irony is that said person claims to make an 'original' revamp(And doesn't see how it's broken, whilst claiming Buccaneers DESERVE to be broken). The lazy, Nexon style fixes are the easiest; and they'll continue to be without bossing changes or new ideas that make classes original and not force them to conform to another class to be 'viable'(In which case, why not PLAY THAT CLASS?).

[quote=tricks122]@cherrytigers I can PM you a link to the Reddit Shadower thread. You'll essentially see a very 'high and mighty' attitude, and while other people are being rude, stooping to their level isn't really something you should be doing. Stuff like "Don't like the way I'm doing things? Go apply <3 "(The heart there is really not needed), and when told the heart wasn't needed by another user, a response that has the equivalent of "Kthxbye <3 " following up from their representative is... well, immature to say the least.

I think jobs do need specific positions, just because each job is different. Each one plays a bit differently, and having the viewpoint of different 'mains' on how the end-game bossing, training(Post 165 and pre-165) and other such aspects play out is important. A lot of the time I see people talking about Buccaneers being 'good' at training, well... I'll respond with "Sure, but a number of classes are on par with them, or slightly worse, and get astronomical returns in terms of bossing ability in comparison; Buccaneers don't receive this, so in reality, you're just training so you can train more, and past 210 or so, it doesn't even matter factually. So can you consider that a strong point?". That's the reason why you'd need different jobs and their opinions; it's easy to look in from the outside, but it's more difficult to see what a job actually does with their overall benefits, how they achieve them, etc. And for that, job experts are needed, but they also need to be experts at the game, otherwise you get knowledge without experience, and that usually leads to bad ideas.

Wasn't the council supposed to rotate every few months? If not, that's just insane, and it really just proves that Nexon is cherry-picking players to sit in on the council. No offense, but... well, let's just say that when my councilor got accepted, I looked for their application; couldn't find it. Ended up seeing that they stream, and I popped in one night; it was nice and all that, but it does lead me to believe that Nexon hand-picked him without really looking at non-streamers and such. I've got nothing against my councilor(The fact that he can deal with me PM'ing him and having lengthy forum discussions alone is more than impressive), but the selection process just seems... well, odd. Especially for a class where having someone with extensive first-hand knowledge so it can be made better is important.[/quote]

I'd like to add onto this. Ths problem is that the changes people are suggesting for mlc class discussions are changes that will make each and every class so similar to eachother. "change it so we can move during song of heaven." "change it so we can move during furious strikes." I mean I can understand people want their classes to seem better, but when you suggest changes that will simply make you play like a lot of other classes, it takes away the diversity of playstyles within classes. There should be other ways to improve your class without making it like others. I remember when someone suggested making bucc blast a keydown skill lol.

@tricks122 I totally agree with you. I edited my previous comment but since it was an edit, you didn't get a chance to read it yet. In my opinion, what should happen is:

As you mentioned: the "Nexon fix." In situations where the councilors agree that a job is broken, they should then reach out to the bucc community when fixing the bucc job instead of doing a fix to buccs that would otherwise take away from their original play style.

You're very right. I wouldn't want someone who knows nothing about a job's actual play style to be making any sort of uninformed changes that should not be made.

@cherrytigers I can PM you a link to the Reddit Shadower thread. You'll essentially see a very 'high and mighty' attitude, and while other people are being rude, stooping to their level isn't really something you should be doing. Stuff like "Don't like the way I'm doing things? Go apply < 3"(The heart there is really not needed), and when told the heart wasn't needed by another user, a response that has the equivalent of "Kthxbye < 3" following up from their representative is... well, immature to say the least.

I think jobs do need specific positions, just because each job is different. Each one plays a bit differently, and having the viewpoint of different 'mains' on how the end-game bossing, training(Post 165 and pre-165) and other such aspects play out is important. A lot of the time I see people talking about Buccaneers being 'good' at training, well... I'll respond with "Sure, but a number of classes are on par with them, or slightly worse, and get astronomical returns in terms of bossing ability in comparison; Buccaneers don't receive this, so in reality, you're just training so you can train more, and past 210 or so, it doesn't even matter factually. So can you consider that a strong point?". That's the reason why you'd need different jobs and their opinions; it's easy to look in from the outside, but it's more difficult to see what a job actually does with their overall benefits, how they achieve them, etc. And for that, job experts are needed, but they also need to be experts at the game, otherwise you get knowledge without experience, and that usually leads to bad ideas.

Wasn't the council supposed to rotate every few months? If not, that's just insane, and it really just proves that Nexon is cherry-picking players to sit in on the council. No offense, but... well, let's just say that when my councilor got accepted, I looked for their application; couldn't find it. Ended up seeing that they stream, and I popped in one night; it was nice and all that, but it does lead me to believe that Nexon hand-picked him without really looking at non-streamers and such. I've got nothing against my councilor(The fact that he can deal with me PM'ing him and having lengthy forum discussions alone is more than impressive), but the selection process just seems... well, odd. Especially for a class where having someone with extensive first-hand knowledge so it can be made better is important.

A small edit; I'm pretty sure one of the requirements, if not the main one, is being a streamer/Youtuber/other social media person. I think the unpopular players are mostly those that they couldn't get anyone else for, and aren't just random people applying, but if you look into it, a LOT of players do the aforementioned social media/streaming stuff, and in many cases they beat out veterans of the class who have incredibly extensive knowledge of it. That's why I think being able to stream/Youtube your Maple Story experience was one thing they looked at more than others.

[quote=epicderp]MapleStory's Lost Cause[/quote]

ayyy not bad tho

@tricks122 I do feel that misrepresented jobs need a say, and you're right about that, which is why I feel even more strongly about non-job specific positions. If they come together in an unbiased point of view and look at the big picture, they'll realize where many of the jobs you mentioned fall short. With job-specific councilors, their voices are drowned out, but without them, only the issues of the underplayed jobs will be seen.

I do see the problem with this though: As you mentioned, the "Nexon fix." In situations where the councilors agree that a job is broken, they should then reach out to the bucc community, when fixing the bucc job, instead of doing a fix to buccs that would otherwise take away from their original play style.

Some of the councilors are giving snide remarks? It's almost like they think they're really above other players now since they've been given a position then.

Leadership is not a position, and when an unqualified person is given a position like this, that kind of crap is bound to happen. Leadership is a state of mind, and those that don't possess the empathy or knowledge should not be in power.
If this is really what's going on, Nexon needs to find a new recruitment system and do a re-haul. Will this ever happen? Doubtful, as Artasi already stated that all current members will stay in seat.

On what basis and qualifications do Nexon look at when finding councilors? Is it simply popularity? I heard some unknown people also got seats in the council though, so I don't think it's simply popularity. Whatever the case is, Nexon was able to pick up some really knowledgeable council members such as Matt, the Wild Hunter, and Drean, the Angelic Buster.