General

if anything, they need to fix jaguar's targeting while using skill shots for sure. in gollux or some other bosses, when you use the Dash 'n Slash (for w.e reason if you chose to i just did it for fun) it will auto attack the gollux but whenever you're using the jaguar skill, it wouldnt hit the eye of the gollux if the jaguar went past the side of Wild hunter's and turn around. unless you reposition yourself or the the jaguar back to the top of the platform.

and can you tell them to fix the glitch whenever Wild Hunter gets under Pierre's hat and get out, it auto mounts the jaguar? it's been pretty annoying to get the delay and getting off from him.

Ya boy Sealed ova here:

This nerf (in my opinion) will totally cripple unfunded players a.k.a me
I think they just got a bit tired of wild hunters being "the best at everything phase" and decided to shut us down for good.
Most of the low point were mostly cooldown increases; or one stat would be benefited, and the other, hindered (a bit like a double edged sword, if you catch my drift.)
All this really means right now is that the unfunded guys (about 80% of the maple population) are just going to have to buck up and deal with it.
Personally,the whole dilemma is a bit peculiar to me.

I'll try to keep this short and sweet, I have a decent amount of experience with the class, as a 215 WH. Anyway, there area few things I'd like to see done:

#1 - Ability to move the jaguar skill bar fixed in a recent kms patch
#2 - Making our turret, with the 25 second (soon to be 30) CD, smaller, or at least less obstructive in view. It really can completely overlap the bosses attacks or other important factors in a fight that make it so if you use it, you are risking death. I love the skill, even the animation, but it has gotten in the way too many times.
#3 I think the nerf is for the most part justified, but in regards to our hyper, I'd prefer it if we kept the same cd time, even if we lose the 3 stacks to 1. I just think the cd increase is insult to injury, in fact I dont like any CD increases, but this is my least favorite.
#4 - Not entirely sure about this one, but considering the nerfs to our another bite debuff, I wish we could somehow make it so dash n slash did not move the jaguar. I understand that this is someetimes helpful, but when we get nailed with these nerfs, I want to be able to make use of every skill that can add the debuff. Ignore this, after doing some higher end-game content, this skills mobility is quite useful for placement of the jaguar on mobile bosses
#5 - I want a 'passive' mode for the jaguar off the mount, it would really help at chaos pierre, as we shoot ourselves in the foot by having to have no jaguar at all, or let it be out and risk healing him when we dont want to attack. And we should be able to access it being passive even if we are stunned.
#6 - least important, but it would be awesome if we could customize the look of our jaguars, like make your own. It wouldn't take too much effort on their part, but if we could sort of customize its fur color, facial features, eyes, tattoos, scars, ect, that would be so freaking awesome.

Thats all I can immediately think of. I love this class, and I don't want it completely nerfed to hell, which i actually think it will be fine after the nerf, but I really hate the cooldown increases. Especially to our hyper.

Hello, I've just gotten my Wild Hunter to 150 and absolutely love them! These nerfs do seem to be directed more towards the lower levels/unfunded players.. Recently I have leveled a Demon Avenger, Dual Blade, Mercedes and NW all to 150, WH was by far the most fun and easiest (due to just insta clearing while running on jag). That being said, I think a nerf is kind of necessary but this seems to be a little too much - again, more towards the unfunded, which like someone else pointed out, less than 1% of players hit cap... I'll always be an unfunded player. I finally have found my main class in the WH and I hope this doesn't affect us too much!

Also, about the jaguar, it would be awesome and make a lot more sense if we can move the bar around and scale it. A HUGE awesome addition would be to make the jaguar more aggressive so he's not always stuck to your side.. he should be able to attack a boss even if you're halfway across the screen.. mechanics similar to WoW would be amazing. Just annoying when you get knocked back from a boss and your jag teleports to you lol.

Yeah... For someone with 90k range this is gunna blow. I do enjoy my WH more than most classes but these nerfs are rough.

@misusing: "told", "encouraged" same thing in my book in this situation...

[quote=icephoenix21]delayed answer, but they did the same thing to the subreddit.

It's like Artasi (or someone) told them to go do it and they're not doing it of their own volition.

Kinda irritating and spammy tbh.[/quote]

No one "told" us to make threads, we were encouraged to so that we can gather information on our classes for discussions.

Off Topic: Some of our Councillors probably didn't post because they probably agree with your viewpoint, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their community.

On Topic: I'm reading every comment so feel free to keep giving input about what you think of the class. I'm sorry if I don't reply, but that doesn't mean I'm not reading it. The thread kinda went off topic for a while but that's okay, things like that happen.

[quote=savaah]why are there so many mlc threads today jesus[/quote]

delayed answer, but they did the same thing to the subreddit.

It's like Artasi (or someone) told them to go do it and they're not doing it of their own volition.

Kinda irritating and spammy tbh.

[quote=happytraderr]Okay I give up. What you are arguing is nothing related to what I'm trying to get through to this thread.

@Misusing: Hope you can read this, if you are. Feedback would be to gear the nerfs towards the the funded players by lowering hps but raising dps so unfunded players don't get crippled. That way the unfunded players who are already at the bottom don't get buried even more, and the other end-game classes will be up-to-par with an end game-WH.[/quote]

But if i recall post-nerf wild hunters are still like #3 or something o.o
Also my currently unfunded wild hunter with 50k clean range is able to clear dojo without (too) much trouble. They're quite broken. Even with a 30% dps decrease or so like i've been hearing they should still be incredibly strong.

[quote=rachelll] "Because the data should be comparable to the videos, in spite what you think. While data and etc is not perfect, a HUGE gap should not exist between it and reality. Thus, that means something is going on that people are unaware of. Be it a glitch, that boss, or that's just how it is. Heck, when I found how WH hits/s actually worked I immediately pointed out the errors in the dps calculator thread which was understating WH actual output." -RujinFujin
As you can see there's an uncertainty there that is contributing to this discrepancy[/quote]

You could say the discrepancy is possibly due to final attack not triggering correctly. (this was a thing they discovered with the introduction of the battle statistics system) Then again wild hunter has AFA but I assume their advantage is because of the game knowing to activate a 100% trigger properly and not the 70% triggers.

@ecarina : maybe you can just abbreviate it to ab or say wild hunters ab stacks or whatever phrasing you want to use.

I don't know much about WHs, mine is only level 141, but I'd like to point out that the word "Bite" is censored on MS, which makes it awkward when talking about WH skills.

[quote=elufu]@closetoshady: Raw output wise 24.9k%/s -> 22.5k%/s (which is higher than any other bowman class)

Obviously after boss defense reduction and such, matters will be different but they're still pretty solid, so as long as you have the necessary %ID equipped.[/quote]

Ahh I see, not bad at all! I guess one can be worried they'll be ignored in the future since I feel they've gotten the short end of the stick of bowmen in the past

@closetoshady: Raw output wise 24.9k%/s -> 22.5k%/s (which is higher than any other bowman class)

Obviously after boss defense reduction and such, matters will be different but they're still pretty solid, so as long as you have the necessary %ID equipped.

[quote=elufu]@happytraderr: The base damage was adjusted by 20%... which is far from significant.[/quote]

Wait so how much effectively weaker are WH after the nerf? 30% I've been hearing but haven't seen numbers to back it up. Just curious haha

@happytraderr: The base damage was adjusted by 20%... which is far from significant.

@bluebomber24: WA are fine the way they are, not endgame hps worthy but insanely efficient for bosses.
Nexon decided to break them which I can't understand. Nw? Sure. Dw? Questionable. But Wind Archers? They really weren't in a position to justify this nerf.

[quote=elufu]@happytraderr: Just for clarifications sake, GMS WH are equipped with the highest raw %/s and the recent nerfs hardly hinder their way of being so. Their hits/s (or max capacity) has however took a significant hit. So the recent kms 'nerfs' do indeed resolve the matter in the way you wanted.

Please have a glance of my summary and opinions of the recent balancing patch on archers in general: http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2782310/28/#46472093
[url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LRgTU3iPDDBh0TSYVDgm-bZYbagsC2GGzmywMaDdXQw/edit#gid=0]Summary table[/url]

The main misconception is that (and partly my fault) is that GMS BMs on paper do way more damage than they actually do in game.

[On topic] I sent an email to the MLCgmail regarding this previously (but this probably vanished into the abyss of Nexon) but I would just for records sake note down what Another Bite's trigger rate is.

There is no mention of a trigger rate in the skill description but a (relatively) reputable source have noted that it is a 50% trigger rate. I have done some personal tests and it appears it's not exactly a 100% rate(or either the another bite triggered later because of server lag).[/quote]

Thank you for clarifying, iirc, didn't KMS also nerf the Another Bite damage % along with the trigger rate?

@happytraderr: Just for clarifications sake, GMS WH are equipped with the highest raw %/s and the recent nerfs hardly hinder their way of being so. Their hits/s (or max capacity) has however took a significant hit. So the recent kms 'nerfs' do indeed resolve the matter in the way you wanted.

Please have a glance of my summary and opinions of the recent balancing patch on archers in general: http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2782310/28/#46472093
[url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LRgTU3iPDDBh0TSYVDgm-bZYbagsC2GGzmywMaDdXQw/edit#gid=0]Summary table[/url]

The main misconception is that (and partly my fault) is that GMS BMs on paper do way more damage than they actually do in game.

[On topic] I sent an email to the MLCgmail regarding this previously (but this probably vanished into the abyss of Nexon) but I would just for records sake note down what Another Bite's trigger rate is.

There is no mention of a trigger rate in the skill description but a (relatively) reputable source have noted that it is a 50% trigger rate. I have done some personal tests and it appears it's not exactly a 100% rate(or either the another bite triggered later because of server lag).

I feel like all this argument is good considering there is something to argue about, it means bowman are fairly well balanced. Sure wh are crazy powered up at the moment, but they'll be put back down again soon and then probably back up again after that.

i should probably get off this thread, I'm not even a bowman player....

Although... Nexon has been pushing me to make one by blessing me with scrolling luck....

[quote=straatlamp]You have to remember that Wild hunters were once the worst of all bowmen, they deserve some recognition which we see now. Whereas Bowmaster have always been top tier.[/quote]

Every Archer and I mean EVERY Archer has been the lowest at some point in time. I have been around long enough to see it. My Avatars gray hair is proof. I mean WA have been on the lower end for quite awhile now and that patch doesn't help. Your logic says WA should be seeing super wonderful buffs soon.

Matt said on stream that he cant control people, you guys should really stop arguing.

[quote=rachelll]@happytraderr: Wtf is wrong with you?
I said:
" This has to do with your statement that "WH is far below Bowmasters even currently " which is absolutely not true"

Then you go on to say:
" Your point is that Bowmasters are stronger than Wild Hunters"

Are you krysticakes on a mule account or something?[/quote]

Okay I give up. What you are arguing is nothing related to what I'm trying to get through to this thread.

@Misusing: Hope you can read this, if you are. Feedback would be to gear the nerfs towards the the funded players by lowering hps but raising dps so unfunded players don't get crippled. That way the unfunded players who are already at the bottom don't get buried even more, and the other end-game classes will be up-to-par with an end game-WH.

@happytraderr: Wtf is wrong with you?
I said:
" This has to do with your statement that "WH is far below Bowmasters even currently " which is absolutely not true"

Then you go on to say:
" Your point is that Bowmasters are stronger than Wild Hunters"

Are you krysticakes on a mule account or something?

And you know....WHs are better unfunded than BMs after the nerf still...
The whole reboot nerf/rebalancing was targeted at funded people (eg: ryude's nerf, BM's h/s nerf, etc)

And this guy tried to be councilor.....at least Artasi made a right decision on that one LOL

@rachelll: I'm going to say it again, the main idea of my 4-sentence comment is what the nerfs are targeting. Great Wild Hunters are stronger than Bowmasters, you clearly got that through. But again, THE MAIN POINT OF MY COMMENT, the nerfs will not hit the funded players as much as the unfunded. Great, you're using Dorothy as an indicator and I understand what you are saying, but these so-called "nerfs" won't change much if you compare dorothy times after. Many of the nerfs Silent Rampage and Literally all of the damage reduction percentages won't affect Misusing (Who I assume you're comparing yourself to). WHICH IS WHY, I'm SAYING, these nerfs are TERRIBLE, because the end-game WH will STILL BE STRONG, but the UNFUNDED Wild Hunters, will suck to crap and feel the full effects. Your point is that Bowmasters are stronger than Wild Hunters, you got that clear, but that was never the point of my comment.

[quote=happytraderr]I'm not here to discuss which class is better. The main idea of my 4-sentence comment is that the nerfs are targeting the unfunded players with the Bowmaster comment being 10% of what I said and used as a comparison. Your problem with me saying the nerfs hit to hard is that a WH can solo Dorothy faster than you, that's great I get it, WH's need nerfs. So how about a balanced nerf like : Nerf Another Bite Stack Chance, Increase Another Bite Damage %. Now unfunded players wont get completely crippled and you can now be #1 dorothy solo![/quote]
Anddd you missed the point again....

This has nothing to do with my personal dorothy solo time. This has to do with your statement that "WH is far below Bowmasters even currently " which is absolutely not true as seen in the ingame example of Dorothy times comparison which is an extremely good benchmark for damage output.

Edit:
If you bothered reading the thread I linked, it would be MMbryan's vs Misusing's Dorothy time that is being used to draw the argument
"My deathless kill (~15 minutes) was still 2-3 minutes slower than Matt's kill, and I cap on Dorothy with hurricane and ~42m+ with platter." -Bryan

[quote=rachelll]@happytraderr: Since you have no intention of looking into past discussions and examples used, I won't bother trying to convince you.

Dorothy was used since it's one of the few punching bags in the game which makes it the best benchmark available

@knightbruha:
Good job showing me what it is on paper. Look into the past discussions--this has already been covered by elufu herself.
Theoretical results does not trump the actual results (ingame)[/quote]

I'm not here to discuss which class is better. The main idea of my 4-sentence comment is that the nerfs are targeting the unfunded players with the Bowmaster comment being 10% of what I said and used as a comparison. Your problem with me saying the nerfs hit to hard is that a WH can solo Dorothy faster than you, that's great I get it, WH's need nerfs. So how about a balanced nerf like : Nerf Another Bite Stack Chance, Increase Another Bite Damage %. Now unfunded players wont get completely crippled and you can now be #1 dorothy solo!

@happytraderr: Since you have no intention of looking into past discussions and examples used, I won't bother trying to convince you.

Dorothy was used since it's one of the few punching bags in the game which makes it the best benchmark available

@knightbruha:
Good job showing me what it is on paper. Look into the past discussions--this has already been covered by elufu herself.
Theoretical results does not trump the actual results (ingame)
"If Another Bite is 100% trigger then a capping WH would do 25% more damage (25% faster clear times) than a 40m turret BM in theory. Someone definitely needs to confirm with Nexon the mechanics behind Turret and Another Bite." -Elufu
"Because the data should be comparable to the videos, in spite what you think. While data and etc is not perfect, a HUGE gap should not exist between it and reality. Thus, that means something is going on that people are unaware of. Be it a glitch, that boss, or that's just how it is. Heck, when I found how WH hits/s actually worked I immediately pointed out the errors in the dps calculator thread which was understating WH actual output." -RujinFujin
As you can see there's an uncertainty there that is contributing to this discrepancy

[quote=rachelll]Are you serious? Is this satire? WHs destroy bowmasters at every level of funding. They win at h/s and dps by a significant margin. A bowmaster with 30k dex can't even cap on CRA in most cases while a WH can cap on cvellum. At Tower of Oz, I lose 4~5 minutes against a capping WH by just damage and I cap on Dorothy as well. The nerf is more than justify and might not even be enough.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659[/quote]

You're delusional, you're delusional ,Boy you're losing your mind., It's confusing yo, you're confused you know, Mariah Careyyyyyyyy

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15Z0tuDq7B8cCh8-ewyBofiHkHKhU2RaUF46ehZ4mdZo/edit#gid=85
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jBIZBdYWrbybemChNfPj2fscVd9RsSRCHV-FZ-Pv2AM/edit#gid=89

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2782310/7/Bowman_Dps_breakdown.html

Well this hits me pretty hard because I am no where even close to being slightly funded. The lower tier bosses gave me trouble and now I won't even be able to do them now because of these nerfs. I know I'm being greedy but can we tone down the nerfs a bit. I have no idea how this affects late game maplestory(probably because I am never going to get there), but the nerfs shouldn't hit wh this much.

[quote=rachelll]Are you serious? Is this satire? WHs destroy bowmasters at every level of funding. They win at h/s and dps by a significant margin. A bowmaster with 30k dex can't even cap on CRA in most cases while a WH can cap on cvellum. At Tower of Oz, I lose 4~5 minutes against a capping WH by just damage and I cap on Dorothy as well. The nerf is more than justify and might not even be enough.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659[/quote]

Then I must be reading Elufu's charts wrong. Yes I agree that there should be a nerf, but moreover a nerf that hits the end-game players like that capping WH you are referring to. Those nerfs aren't TARGETING the end-game players other than the reduced chance of another bite from auto attacks. 40% damage, cdr nerf on silent rampage does nothing to your "capping" friend that you are comparing to. Nerfs should not be justified because one class who hits cap solos dorothy 4 minutes than another class who hits cap (Keep in mind that is like less than 0.5% of the community)

Guess you're taking my comment too seriously, the main point of my 4 sentence comment was that the nerfs hit the unfunded way more than they do funded players, Bowmaster was just a random comparison (AND ONCE AGAIN, you are making a comparison between 2 players that are in the same tier as .5% of the entire community). An example of a balanced patch that wont destroy the unfunded players : Nerf another bite stack chance, but buff % damage. So now you will be able to solo dorothy faster than a capping Wild Hunter without crippling the unfunded players.

[quote=straatlamp]You have to remember that Wild hunters were once the worst of all bowmen, they deserve some recognition which we see now. Whereas Bowmaster have always been top tier.[/quote]

Yes, but to say that "WH is far below Bowmasters even currently" is just a blatant lie so I just needed to make that a little more obvious. I've been all for a BM nerf (as seen from my past comments that doesn't mention ryude's bow or shadow partner for bowmasters) and a WA buff (in h/s)

[quote=rachelll]Are you serious? Is this satire? WHs destroy bowmasters at every level of funding. They win at h/s and dps by a significant margin. A bowmaster with 30k dex can't even cap on CRA in most cases while a WH can cap on cvellum. At Tower of Oz, I lose 4~5 minutes against a capping WH by just damage and I cap on Dorothy as well. The nerf is more than justify and might not even be enough.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659[/quote]

You have to remember that Wild hunters were once the worst of all bowmen, they deserve some recognition which we see now. Whereas Bowmaster have always been top tier.

[quote=happytraderr]They nerf just hit too hard, WH is far below Bowmasters even currently which doesn't make sense, I feel like they only nerfed WH because of all the hype. They need to prioritize the nerfs if anything, on higher funded players, there is no reason to hurt unfunded players through nerfs.

Alot of the nerfs including the Another Bite damage and Silent Rampage nerfs are strictly only going to affect lower funded players which really doesn't make any sense. (I'm assuming Nexon is nerfing classes only for the sake that end-game players don't solo bosses in 30 seconds). Hope you can point that out despite being funded yourself for all of the unfunded players out there.[/quote]

Are you serious? Is this satire? WHs destroy bowmasters at every level of funding. They win at h/s and dps by a significant margin. A bowmaster with 30k dex can't even cap on CRA in most cases while a WH can cap on cvellum. At Tower of Oz, I lose 4~5 minutes against a capping WH by just damage and I cap on Dorothy as well. The nerf is more than justify and might not even be enough.

http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/2878659

[quote=sabspirit]lol ikr it's like Nexon released all of the reps into basilmarket haha [/quote]

We also got few MLC members this week.

"Rampage as One: Another Bite stacks inflicted have been decreased from 3 to 1, cooldown has been increased from 12 seconds to 14 seconds"
THIS is what I don't think is necessary...

They nerf just hit too hard, WH is far below Bowmasters even currently which doesn't make sense, I feel like they only nerfed WH because of all the hype. They need to prioritize the nerfs if anything, on higher funded players, there is no reason to hurt unfunded players through nerfs.

Alot of the nerfs including the Another Bite damage and Silent Rampage nerfs are strictly only going to affect lower funded players which really doesn't make any sense. (I'm assuming Nexon is nerfing classes only for the sake that end-game players don't solo bosses in 30 seconds). Hope you can point that out despite being funded yourself for all of the unfunded players out there.

Instead of "Leave Britney alone!" it should be "Leave Wild Hunters alone!" because this nerf is ridiculous.

- Move jag bar, no reason not to let us really
- Leave silent rampage alone pliz, don't nerf it
- Jag should lock on to whatever monster you're attacking, imo
- Let us cast turret while attacking, like it's supposed to do

[quote=savaah]why are there so many mlc threads today jesus[/quote]

lol ikr it's like Nexon released all of the reps into basilmarket haha

why are there so many mlc threads today jesus