General

L>Updated version please

L>updated version please

Can u explain me how did you calculate the phantom's % per second and zero's % per second please?

@lazershock dunno if you update this, but the DB numbers are off by a lot, JoeTang wasn't accounting for Mirror Image with the hyper skill tables.
Also, a few revamps have happened since this was updated I believe.

any new dps charts from kms?

lol. Gungnrir descent isn't as good as JT thought it was. Drk is not #2 anymore.

I wonder how calculating asura into a DB's DPM would affect their ranking

@shabe: Phantom would be if he got to a decently high range (say.... 85k clean?), though this greatly depends on the skills you've stolen; I'd personally recommend stealing Cross Surge and Arrow Blaster.

[quote=lazershock]@Islander20: Except this is calculated right down to the exact number of hits / second; meaning you will ALWAYS hit more with blade dance, assuming your target doesn't move and you literally just sit there and spam it (basically what im saying is, blade dance hits so many times that its total % output over the course of a minute, outweighs the output of snipe)

In most practical cases, snipe is better; but against a target that just sits there with 0% defense, blade dancing is the stronger of the two =P[/quote]

Question, i have a DB lvl 202, with a190k range and a lvl 200 phantom without equips and thinking of changing.. im mostly bossing, assuming im at a boss with 0% def and not moving at all, which will be better with 100% boss?

@lazershock: I respect that but I've yet to ever see a case where Blade is better. Ever.

@Islander20: Except this is calculated right down to the exact number of hits / second; meaning you will ALWAYS hit more with blade dance, assuming your target doesn't move and you literally just sit there and spam it (basically what im saying is, blade dance hits so many times that its total % output over the course of a minute, outweighs the output of snipe)

In most practical cases, snipe is better; but against a target that just sits there with 0% defense, blade dancing is the stronger of the two =P

@lazershock: I've managed to put out more damage with Mecha Snipe than Beam Dance, your math is fine but in actual application, your list leaves a lot to be desired.

[quote=Islander20]Looking at the list, Xenon appeared way to low, then I noticed the skill you had listed for their damage and now I'm wondering if you used their worst skill purposely to lower them on the list...[/quote]

Bit of an old post but I felt compelled to reply to this. Blade Dancing is actually Xenon's STRONGEST skill in terms of pure numbers output, since this chart assumes your enemy never moves; the only even remotely comparable thing is purge lob - Snipe which comes in at 8759%/s, whereas blade dance is 10122%.

Bear in mind this is post-nerf Xenon, so they saw quite a bit of a reduction in terms of overall damage. I don't take sides based on what classes I like or anything, I take sides based on facts, and the fact is that when you talk pure %/ second; xenon is nowhere near as strong as alot of other classes. (he's still quite strong with funding though since has has 3 main stats to rely on)

Looking at the list, Xenon appeared way to low, then I noticed the skill you had listed for their damage and now I'm wondering if you used their worst skill purposely to lower them on the list...

Thank you so much for this chart

@fradddd: He did, however not for post-RED. Although who says he won't.

But yeah... most [i]importantly[/i] [b]I[/b] care.

@ryuushinou who cares, JT didn't make it easy to read like this.

"lazershock's" - Given that you only compiled the number from the different tables.. I'm against you taking ownership of the ranking list. The column items are exactly the same as his pre-red list as well.. Perhaps incorporating the above comments and few pages back will make it a tad more original (yet still requires a reference to JT's chart or at least a mention).

@wizardq: ... for me means I am pausing to think or consider as if we were having a live conversation. I never even knew it could mean something outside of that, haha.

[quote=bluebomber24]And that would be wrong. Cygnus Knights and Mercs don't ignore all of physical resist. They ignore half and a quarter, respectively.[/quote]

Oh im aware of that, I was just including them as the ones who don't get their numbers reduced by half (since directly before that all the numbers get cut in half, except for those mentioned, who either have no reduction, or less than 50% reduction)

[quote=bluebomber24]@wizardq: I am not offended or annoyed at all o.o. I am not sure where you are getting that. I am just explaining why it would be unlikely. Stop reading to much into things or learn to ignore expressions and focus on the discussion[/quote]

I just didn't see the reason for all the dots before your sentences, and since people usually do that when they are bothered or annoyed I assumed you were to. Glad you had good intentions.

@wizardq: I am not offended or annoyed at all o.o. I am not sure where you are getting that. I am just explaining why it would be unlikely. Stop reading to much into things or learn to ignore expressions and focus on the discussion

edit: forgot to talk about the rest of your quote after reading the other part -_-. Yes, the columns can be added, but it won't really be a ranking chart in the sense that the title indicates is what I mean. Personally I suggest he puts that in a sperate tab altogether if he decides to do.

@bluebomber24: It wouldn't be very hard to add a column for different boss PDRs. Maybe one for 30%, 50%, etc. I don't get why you seem offended or annoyed that I asked him, since it doesn't affect you at all. No need to go all "..." on me.

@lazershock Okay, if you have time.

[quote=lazershock]@wizardq: Elemental resist would just take all the numbers here (minus a few like Paladin, Archmages, Cygnus characters, etc) and cut them in half; its not impossible to do but it'd be a little difficult since i'd need to make more columns =P Maybe a few days from now when I feel more motivated I could do it.[/quote]

And that would be wrong. Cygnus Knights and Mercs don't ignore all of physical resist. They ignore half and a quarter, respectively.

@wizardq: Elemental resist would just take all the numbers here (minus a few like Paladin, Archmages, Cygnus characters, etc) and cut them in half; its not impossible to do but it'd be a little difficult since i'd need to make more columns =P Maybe a few days from now when I feel more motivated I could do it.

[quote=wizardq]@bluebomber24: Okay, I'm not opposed to that. Is there a reason he shouldn't add PDR?[/quote]

....because that wasn't his original intent and PDR varies from boss to boss.

@bluebomber24: Okay, I'm not opposed to that. Is there a reason he shouldn't add PDR?

[quote=wizardq]Do you think you could do an elemental resistance chart, since almost all end game bosses have elemental resistance?[/quote]

.....well...if he did he probaly should include PDR too, since all end-game bosses have pdr. The more you add...the more you have to add...

[quote=lazershock]@bluebomber24: Not sure if I mentioned it in my post but I should have clarified that I ment everyone has ROUGHLY similar damage drop offs within their class group, e.g: hero and dark both have their DPM drop by about 1k%/ second at 10% defense, so on and so forth =P (Though in some cases this depends on how high your DPM is to begin with, as 10% of 51.9k is obviously much higher than losing 10% of 20k)

And you're correct, on most bosses these days, accounting for the fact that wingbeat has delays (and the fact that bosses like Magnus move around) Kaiser's true DPM is nowhere near what it says, simply because of the way wingbeat works. In a perfect world kaiser has the higher DPM but in reality i'd agree that Marksman outdamages him (not too sure about Xenon post nerfs)[/quote]

Do you think you could do an elemental resistance chart, since almost all end game bosses have elemental resistance?

@bluebomber24: Not sure if I mentioned it in my post but I should have clarified that I ment everyone has ROUGHLY similar damage drop offs within their class group, e.g: hero and dark both have their DPM drop by about 1k%/ second at 10% defense, so on and so forth =P (Though in some cases this depends on how high your DPM is to begin with, as 10% of 51.9k is obviously much higher than losing 10% of 20k)

And you're correct, on most bosses these days, accounting for the fact that wingbeat has delays (and the fact that bosses like Magnus move around) Kaiser's true DPM is nowhere near what it says, simply because of the way wingbeat works. In a perfect world kaiser has the higher DPM but in reality i'd agree that Marksman outdamages him (not too sure about Xenon post nerfs)

@lazershock: Everyone else isn't affected by defense "equally". I commonly use the 40% mark chart because its more balanced realisitcally. A player that has RA quips, HT Set, and Phantom Link will reduce a boss with 100% PDR to 43% pdr before taking thier own skills into consideration. For example at 0% Boss/Total Mercedes almost catches up to WH on the 40% PDR area.

Its yet another reason why Mercs arn't as bad as they appear in reality and people are just fail,ing to properly analyze outside of charts. And unlike WH, Mercedes also has 25% ignore resist so she will outdamage a WH at CRA/Magnus

On other stuff, I see.

Edit: Also this is purely irrelevant as paper is paper, but I personally don't think Kaisers are in the top 5 for dpm. I have been kinda watching them and noticing that they arn't that "super" in real time bossing. Primarily because Wingbeat does not stay on a boss 100% of the time. Based on my observations, I am pretty confident MM and Xenons out-dpm Kaisers realisitcally. Again its irrelevant but its good to know things when you have to talk about reality when looking at the chart. While I havn't looked at Zeros much, be aware that number 1 on paper does not mean number 1 in reality. That could be with the person that is watching videos may see.

On WH number, realistically if they work on thier status resist and stance and get both up which they easily can do, WH are on the classes that are most likely to have constant DPM. They have a simple playstye. With the right building, 100% stance and 35%+ Status resist, and can move in any direction without stopping to attack. While thier numbers are low, they will outdpm many classes realistically in places like Chaos Vellum and Magnus.

[quote=iFIew]Welp, time to see %STR inflate even more once RED hits considering the top 3 are all warrior classes.

Also, is your chart 1v1 damage? Because from the videos, it seems that Zeroes aren't that OP at bossing, but just mobbing?[/quote]

Chart is infact 1v1 damage, its simply the fact that like kaiser, Zero has a high number of hits per second; the difference is, while all of kaiser's hits are weak (around 200 or so % / hit) Zero's are QUITE strong, Advanced Rolling Curve for example is 760 x 6, which then fires off 3 energy blades that hit 760% again on up to 8 enemies

@yukinariyuki: it would appear until now without realizing it, I was using an incorrect number for wild hunters. Still a pretty sizable buff though considering that GMS wild hunter is currently at: 9157%/s @ 0% boss damage.

[quote=lazershock]If you take just their individual numbers, Alpha comes in at 29.7k%/ second and Beta comes in at 22.2k%/ second. Both of them are quite strong alone[/quote]

Welp, time to see %STR inflate even more once RED hits considering the top 3 are all warrior classes.

Also, is your chart 1v1 damage? Because from the videos, it seems that Zeroes aren't that OP at bossing, but just mobbing?

wow wild hunters at 21

[quote=iFIew]Are Zeroes still relatively strong without chaining attacks? The numbers, even theoretical, seems quite ridiculous...[/quote]

If you take just their individual numbers, Alpha comes in at 29.7k%/ second and Beta comes in at 22.2k%/ second. Both of them are quite strong alone

Are Zeroes still relatively strong without chaining attacks? The numbers, even theoretical, seems quite ridiculous...

[quote=Zaros]@lazershock

Is ascend + thunder really the best dps TB have? What about the typhoon/tornado skills combined with the hyper skills?
and are the most recent changes of kmst(resistance revamp) calculated when it says that BaM are the 4th?[/quote]

Yeah the new changes are there @ Battle Mage, calculated with Big Crunch Aura instead of body boost, everything else is relatively the same (they got a roughly 25% damage increase)

Ascend + Thunder was the strongest, i'll check and make sure it still is. One Moment

Edit: Yep it still is, Ascend + Thunder comes in at 10.6k, Thunderbolt comes in at 10.3k, and doing the same WITHOUT typhoon/tornado comes in at 8.9k (so typhoon is already factored into their numbers)

[quote=watchtv88]Dark Knights drop off very steeply when attacking monsters with more than 0% def.[/quote]

To be perfectly fair, everyone else is affected by defense almost equally, quite simple to get 90% defense ignore though as a dark knight.

@bluebomber24:
I fixed the WH numbers now, was waiting for JT to update his numbers to the post-KMST one (since its just a minor buff i doubt it'll change in the official server)

Edit: also updated Battle Mage

@Jarglebargus: pick up speed I think. Bosster probaly affects how fast one moves thier weapon from the idle position as well. Since JT includes buffing delays you will see a difference.

There you go Da, hold your own no need to be op.
On the other hand wow, im so surprised nexon actually fixed Drks kind of motivated to play mine again.

@lazershock WH numbers are wrong

Teh bump for damage hoars

Post so I can revisit thread later

[quote=Rorik92]paladins at rank 16 oh yeah, we're op now guys.[/quote]

They can ignore elemental resistance. This alone bumps them up to around 4th or 5th on end game bosses.

@lazershock Dual Blade numbers are incorrect, [url=http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=50829&p=864847&viewfull=1#post864847]Advanced Dark Sight was added to the tables recently.[/url]

paladins at rank 16 oh yeah, we're op now guys.

So I take it that DB's will still overpower Shadowers post RED, Shads using DS + Nate and DB's using No CD FC + PB

Is the storm cloud and elquines counted in for I/Ls?

Are Dawn Warriors really that bad? Their skills look to good to be that low. They basically have a shadow partner and pretty good buffs.

I was wondering, What about the ASURA for db? I mean you include BKB for BaM but not ASURA for db? i believe it should be included since it does so much damage.
Although, i would expect the calculation to be little bit more complex since it has cooldown and such. Which also brings me to a question, is DS dmg including blue blood or not? it also boosts their dmg by alot but has cooldown