General

[quote=JustGoof]I agree. All we need is an up jump [/quote]

I want a NL vertical jump skill so badly. It would make training at KD4 so much more fluid.

[quote=kiue]If you are talking about the "original" original, yeah... hated when Shadowers got SP, Flash Jump and Shadower Shifter made them super tanky and strong and pretty much made NL weak as hell unless had a ton of money....

Anyway, NLs now are great the way they are. If they need anything else, I think giving them an up-jump would be nice. I personally love Up-jump for mobility. I mean... Even DB got one.[/quote]

I agree. All we need is an up jump

I don't think they need to be changed because their fine as they are atm.

NightLords Pretty fun playing

Needs alot of fund's to have decent dmg

But in the end Fun

Our skills are pretty above avg from other classes

They may not be the "BEST" but hey they work

Would want drain back B/c im still doing the lunar dew quest... 9/20 ALMOST THERE BOYS
~Im just super lazy im sorry Game, but it wasn't me who made a crazy low drop rate for those dews ~

Avenger....nostalgia trash mobbing skill... But it was our trash mobbing skill and it looked hype ...It's what made me want to make a Hermit
~Henesys Hunting ground... where i saw a hermit throw an avenger~ It was awsome

like they mentioned,nl is fairly balanced. They have decent mobbing/good bossing/avoid. Nw has better bossing but mobbing is still painful unless your bats are ohkoing.
They also have a very good bossing debuff. They are probably one of the most balanced adventurers class. Though i do agree, not many classes are unique sadly

@LitheMovement: Nls are just fine. End of story. No class is perfect, it has its flaws like everyone else, there are other classes that require far more attention.

@TheKingslayer: Ah nevermind. If you don't know how to space your characters out well, it won't matter anyway. I guess NL's are just more noob-friendly since it apparently takes skill to realize the distance of your skills' hitboxes and then utilize it in the gameplay.

@LitheMovement: all classes can attack up close and far away? I main hero, db, shade.... none of which compare to nls range.

@TheKingslayer: That bigger range hardly compensates for anything when it comes to taking attacks. NL's are just as susceptible to the long-range attacks as most close range attackers. For the close-ranged attacks exhibited by monsters, the "melee" classes now easily have attack ranges that can bypass that as well. In other words, the convenience is still there for the tanks but hardly for the NL's.

The long-ranged argument basically doesn't stand very well 'cause all classes can attack up close and from far away.

[quote=LitheMovement]I don't know if you've noticed, but they've long since gone down this road. They really may as well go all the way with giving every class everything since all the classes have all the conveniences anyway. If you're going to cause a trainwreck, might as well include as many fireworks as possible.

Another thing noone seems to notice: everyone has huge ranged attacks now. Hardly anyone needs to get up close, and Night Lords only have a small advantage of range compared to just about everyone else in that department nowadays. People using "ranged attacks" as an argument don't know what they're talking about or are taking their own ranged skills for granted.[/quote]

a nl has far more range than any class I play. What you talking about?

[quote=chickenpoodl]with some of the things that a few of you say, they might as well just remove every class difference.
make every class identical.
because you know, that's how MMORPG's should be. since the "R" doesn't mean anything at all. [/quote]

I don't know if you've noticed, but they've long since gone down this road. They really may as well go all the way with giving every class everything since all the classes have all the conveniences anyway. If you're going to cause a trainwreck, might as well include as many fireworks as possible.

Another thing noone seems to notice: everyone has huge ranged attacks now. Hardly anyone needs to get up close, and Night Lords only have a small advantage of range compared to just about everyone else in that department nowadays. People using "ranged attacks" as an argument don't know what they're talking about or are taking their own ranged skills for granted.

I think NLs are fine in rebalancing. However I don't like how "average" we are might just be me. We are average at mobbing compared to other classes (I'm pretty sure if you one shot with Showdown the exp and drop rate doesn't actually trigger because you need to first mark so that feature is useless if you one shot), we're above average at bossing compared to others but not that much better then most. Our survivability is average, low hp but dodge chance thats decent. Our mobility is decent, a lot of classes now have a flash jump and an up jump. It's weird when a warrior which is regarded as the slowest but hard hitting class is sometimes faster and more mobile then a thief, the master of mobility and speed. Not only are we average but we are completely outshined by Night Walkers in mobility, quin star, bossing, survivability, drain, bind, revive, quicker attack speed, 3 shadow partner.

with some of the things that a few of you say, they might as well just remove every class difference.
make every class identical.
because you know, that's how MMORPG's should be. since the "R" doesn't mean anything at all.

if we were to base it all on the fact that just because one class had a skill first, that no other class should have it, we'll be sending maplestory back to 2007...

[quote=Lecarde]This just isn't true. Our avoid skills are way behind that of shadowers and DBs. We don't get any stance. Our SP is way behind that of NW. We are a strong class, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the class.[/quote]

Don't need stance, you jump throw. Don't need avoid, you jump throw.

Your complaining that you're not as good a bosser as one of the best bossers in the game, Ever occur to you that you get a worse shadow partner because a NW can barely 1hit sh with a 1.2m range? While you can do it at what, 500k?

Nightlord is Abso-freaking-lutely Fine. You know who needs a rebalance? Aran.

[quote=kiue]I personally love Up-jump for mobility. I mean... Even DB got one.[/quote]

Don't worry. It's horrible.

The only thing I really would want back is Drain. Yeah, we don't necessarily get hit as often because we are ranged (although every monster worth fighting can hit you from as far as you can hit it anyways), but with the lower base-HP and lower base avoidability we are incredibly squishy, especially at lower levels or without character cards providing 3k+ free HP.

Potion pot on my pet has been the saving grace to the lack of drain, but I certainly would want it back.

Dont Nls have drop rate and exp buffs too?

The complaint that they have less avoid than the other thieves is a really stupid one imo. The other thieves NEED higher avoid, why? because they are close ranged classes. They dont have the luxury of just standing on one side of the map and letting their finger just fall asleep on quad star till the boss dies. Even with their higher avoid Nls range advantage is still better in a lot of circumstances where avoid means nothing like cvellum.

[quote=Lecarde]This just isn't true. Our avoid skills are way behind that of shadowers and DBs. We don't get any stance. Our SP is way behind that of NW. We are a strong class, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the class.[/quote]
there are many classes w/o stance, and either way you can get mihile link. NL is a ranged class meant to hit from farther away, so its not exactly illogical they dont get stance too. avoid could be updated for sure, or giving back drain. it would be nice to get a vertical jump, but again many classes dont have that, and they dont need it. like its been pointed out before, NL excels at many categories in this game. bossing, damage, training. itd be hard to give them much more and have it be fair. you COULD give em a vert jump and stance, but then why not give it to everyone? with that mindset it ruins any kind of uniqueness to playing different classes IMO

@Lecarde: lol... changing the %damage causes a change in the damage per hit causing a chance in the dps. How is that not a change... lmao

@Klytta: Rebalancing is not change. Changing the %damage of a skill is not changing the class. And even if you think it is, we haven't even had it happen that often compared to other classes

@Lecarde: A rebalancing is a change. And I didn't say patch wise. I was comparing go other thief classes. You're confusing dude because you don't seem to count rebalancing as a change. And you basically just agreed with me that they get rebalanced often.

@klytta: RED and BB were the only patches that really changed NL a lot. Everything else was just rebalancing, changing a few numbers around. And even then it wasn't every other patch like you seem to think it was

I've played all the thieves and the only thief out of all of them that hasn't been constantly remade has been DB. Shadower is a close second. But NL on the other hand gets skill changes constantly. Going back to the original skill set shadower and NL have seen far more updates and reworks. This is also a reason why I enjoy db now. I first loved NL then I love loved shadower. But they changed shadower too much and I lost my connection with it. And now I'm enjoying my time as a db. All classes have issues. But NL is definitely not one of the bad or in need ones. You get flying stars and 30%exp/drop before a hyper adds even more for crying out loud.

Iunno, I've been through every iteration of NLs since the game was released and the only thing I really miss is drain. Having a higher void would be nice as well. It does kind of stink that a lot of what made NLs so unique in the early days is attributed to pretty much every class. I mean, back then the trade off was we would have great 1v1, range and mobility, but would suffer severely in survivability and mobbing (because Avenger sucked.)

Honestly, that's one of the reasons I quit. Jobs just no longer provided the uniqueness they used to have and every update has been to make every class, pretty much every other class. It's boring.

@kiue: We could definitely use more upwards mobility because ours is mostly non-existent. And a way to cancel animation similar to shades backstep would be extremely useful due to how slow our buffs are

[quote=kiue]If you are talking about the "original" original, yeah... hated when Shadowers got SP, Flash Jump and Shadower Shifter made them super tanky and strong and pretty much made NL weak as hell unless had a ton of money....

Anyway, NLs now are great the way they are. If they need anything else, I think giving them an up-jump would be nice. I personally love Up-jump for mobility. I mean... Even DB got one.[/quote]
Yea, exactly NLs are great the way there are now. That person pointed out the things NLs don't have and it need to be addressed and yet he calls it not making it 'perfect'. So yea other wise we can ask for damage reduction, stance, jump up and whatever abilities we lack. Those abilities are welcome, that's for sure, who doesn't want it, right?

[quote=Lecarde]I didn't ask to be perfect .I was pointing out areas in which NL need to be updated. Quite frankly, its a huge slap in the face to us since we were originally the only class in the game with a double jump, haste and SS and now other classes have better jump, better speed, and better avoid than we do. It needs to be addressed at some point. And just because other classes need an update more than we do does not mean we don't need an update period. There is zero logic in that statement[/quote]

If you are talking about the "original" original, yeah... hated when Shadowers got SP, Flash Jump and Shadower Shifter made them super tanky and strong and pretty much made NL weak as hell unless had a ton of money....

Anyway, NLs now are great the way they are. If they need anything else, I think giving them an up-jump would be nice. I personally love Up-jump for mobility. I mean... Even DB got one.

@Revolutionist: Yeah BM is next, I have one of those too

[quote=MrSinDeath19]NL is the only explorer class that can still hold its own against newer, more powerful/useful classes.[/quote]

Bow Master.

[quote=Lecarde]I didn't ask to be perfect .I was pointing out areas in which NL need to be updated. Quite frankly, its a huge slap in the face to us since we were originally the only class in the game with a double jump, haste and SS and now other classes have better jump, better speed, and better avoid than we do. It needs to be addressed at some point. And just because other classes need an update more than we do does not mean we don't need an update period. There is zero logic in that statement[/quote]

Sure whatever you say. I know NL has the lowest dodging skills among the thieves, but I don't know why you mention the speed and jump part. But hey whatever I hope they will release an update soon to satisfy your needs!

Edit: And there were people in this post before me who agreed too but you only quoted me lol.

[quote=Hualicious]Eh? No class is suppose to be perfect in everything. So no, they are good as they are right now. There is nothing wrong with the job so they don't need any updates, but they DO have their own pros and cons like any other jobs. MapleStory doesn't only involve only in Night Lords. There are other jobs that need an update more than a Night Lord do.[/quote]

I didn't ask to be perfect .I was pointing out areas in which NL need to be updated. Quite frankly, its a huge slap in the face to us since we were originally the only class in the game with a double jump, haste and SS and now other classes have better jump, better speed, and better avoid than we do. It needs to be addressed at some point. And just because other classes need an update more than we do does not mean we don't need an update period. There is zero logic in that statement

They are just balanced. They don't excel at anything but aren't bad in any departments.

[quote=Lecarde]This just isn't true. Our avoid skills are way behind that of shadowers and DBs. We don't get any stance. Our SP is way behind that of NW. We are a strong class, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the class.[/quote]

Eh? No class is suppose to be perfect in everything. So no, they are good as they are right now. There is nothing wrong with the job so they don't need any updates, but they DO have their own pros and cons like any other jobs. MapleStory doesn't only involve only in Night Lords. There are other jobs that need an update more than a Night Lord do.

[quote=Hualicious]There is nothing wrong with Night Lords. I agree with TheKingslayer's comment.[/quote]

This just isn't true. Our avoid skills are way behind that of shadowers and DBs. We don't get any stance. Our SP is way behind that of NW. We are a strong class, but that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the class.

There is nothing wrong with Night Lords. I agree with TheKingslayer's comment.

Nightlords are good at literally every aspect of this game, mobbing, grinding, bossing, everything. If the discussion of class rebalancing was to come up, nl will definitely not be in it.

you need to think for all night lords, and not just you. just because you dont fund your night lord well means that you need a buff lol

You can't be serious can you ts?

The only buff that the nl need is more avoid, db needs that giant star from nl and shads

I don't see what's wrong with night lords, they're are pretty good and if you're fast you can probably get a 4:50 dojo time.

NL is the only explorer class that can still hold its own against newer, more powerful/useful classes. The only real "buff" we need is one that would make our gear cheaper </3