A Conversation About God
Hello all. I'm working on a short story at the moment, it's called "Broken." As the title suggests, it's about a group of broken people at a dingy bar, discussing their lives after living lives of failure and extreme hardship. Talks about failed relationships, ambitions and unforeseeable misfortunes are all dealt with and of course, fate and religion come into play as people try to make sense of the world around them. This is just an excerpt but I want to get some feedback on what you think about the dialogue and some of the ideas presented here. Let me know what you think:
"I used to believe in God. I really did. Put my faith in Him, believed that He knew the way. Nowadays I can't help but think that God must be more confused than the rest of us. The more I know the less I can make sense of things. Imagine how God must feel then, knowing everything."
The woman with the stillborn baby shook her head. "I don't think He's confused at all. I've seen that type of person before. Dated someone just like Him, stole my good years right from under my nose. You don't know the half of it. There they sit, demanding your praise and adoration but you can't question them. Doesn't matter if what they do doesn't make any damn sense, it's always you in the wrong. It's always about how you're at fault and how everything was great until you showed up. Always think others are out to get them and you never get to hear any other side of the story. But look who's in charge and look at how things are! "
"Now you're just being bitter," interjected the man with the cigarette. "You can't blame God for something you don't know if he's in control of. If we're going to talk about the evils of the world we need to start at the source. Where do you think this evil came from?"
There was an awkward pause as they contemplated this rather unusual question. "You see, I believe that if something could have been done about evil then it would have been done already. You really think if God was good he would let evil just come into existence if he had known about it? Who's to say that it's something even He couldn't take into account?"
"But he knows everything!"
"He knows everything there is to know," he corrected her. "Have you ever read the book of Job? Why do you think God got so angry and upset when he questioned Him about evil? He created the world with such tact and care. Gave us our own Paradise to inhabit. And out of nowhere, this cosmic tragedy we call evil arose. How could anyone plan for that? I think God is just as clueless as the rest of us are about how things got to this state. All He knows now is that he's in charge of cleaning this big mess and everyone blames Him for something that may very well be out of his control. He just talks big to give us a sense of security, just like your mother did when your alcoholic of a dad beat you up. Do you really blame your mother for telling you it's alright when she had no clue whether that would be her last words to you? It's a tragedy. One not even a god can deal."
At this point a slender man with glasses stood up, shaking his head. "You're all wrong, I'm afraid."
"And how do you figure?" scoffed the man with the cigarette.
"I'm a preacher. I've studied the Bible for many years and now and I like to believe that I have a special connection with the man upstairs. I've been listening to this conversation go on for a while and it's hard for a man such as myself to listen in. Such a lack of faith, such weariness. But I know the truth. I know the truth that will quench that eternal thirst of questions you have. But you must have faith in Him."
"But how can we have faith when...when..." the woman with the stillborn baby could not be brought to finish her thought, but they were all painfully aware of what she was longing to say.
The preacher, however, did not look daunted. "Miss, I'm so sorry about your newborn. Believe me, I am and I'm sure God will be too. But He doesn't know any better. He really doesn't. If He did, He would have done something about it already. You just have to keep on praying and let him know it ain't right. But he's just a deity trying to deal with us humans. He doesn't understand what emotions or feelings are like. He tries his damnedest to do what's right but he's just like a big baby. A big baby with lots of power and He doesn't know what he do. He probably wakes up in the morning and creates a typhoon, sneezes and creates another solar system, blinks his eyes and finds himself lord of another species. But we must be strong and forgive Him, for He knows not what He does."
20 Comments • Newest first
@WontPostMuch: I didn't know it was completely about the stillborn. So what I said still did apply because they're complaining about how God lets bad things happen.
@WindowLegs no, not directly. My pastor said something like it a while ago but I'm sure I'm not making nearly as much sense as he did when he said it.
[quote=fradddd]God lets things happen in order to maintain our free will. If He interceded in such significant ways, we wouldn't have free will, because He'd be in control completely.[/quote]
i hope this is a quote from the very famous book called the bible which has been edited many times to suit the target audience.
[quote=fradddd]@WontPostMuch your story is dumb. There just cause I said it doesn't mean it's true.
How is my argument even dumb.
And there is no point in this thread. You said "let me know what you think", I let you know.[/quote]
The characters are discussing how they've d come to lose faith in everything, including the knowledge and wisdom of God and his ability to even be able to deal with evil.the discussion is really about how worn out they are. Moreover, one of the main reasons that led to their disbelief was a stillbirth. Saying that this stillbirth happened because God wants everyone to have freewill makes no sense because the very act of someone dying before they even exit the womb negates any free will they posessed, so that defense isn't even applicable here.
Add in that the thread is about the quality of writing and your response is not only off topic but not even applicable to the conversation the characters are having, thus, I think I was right in saying your reply was dumb.
@WontPostMuch your story is dumb. There just cause I said it doesn't mean it's true.
How is my argument even dumb.
And there is no point in this thread. You said "let me know what you think", I let you know.
[quote=fradddd]God lets things happen in order to maintain our free will. If He interceded in such significant ways, we wouldn't have free will, because He'd be in control completely.[/quote]
This is a dumb argument and frankly, not the point of this thread.
God lets things happen in order to maintain our free will. If He interceded in such significant ways, we wouldn't have free will, because He'd be in control completely.
@silkym39 I think he said to show how "broken" people are and their behavior after a tough life or something
You better make other stories to cater for all religions... dont be selfish
I don't like how you introduce your characters. It's weird to say "the guy with the cigarette" or "the woman with the still-born." I'm sure there are better ways to distinguish ur characters.
On another note, what's the point of the story? Is there an argument? A self-reflection? Just entertainment? All writing has a purpose.
i think you should emphasize the entrance of the preacher a little. the way i read it, it seems that he was suddenly thrown into the conversation.
something like "while they were talking, a skinny man with glasses was watching them while holding his glass of beer. he contemplated whether to join in their conversation or not. his tall skinny frame then rose and he declared". unless the previous excerpt of the story has already presented him watching them.
The preacher character feels forced, I would much rather have the group go through their own rationalizations and self-reflections without a "know it all".
[quote=xoqtprincessxo]I don't know, I don't like it. Maybe it's because this is just an excerpt and I don't know your characters, but this discussion holds no weight coming from these people. If you only want to discuss the ideas, then there are probably much more straightforward ways of doing so. As it is right now, your characters seem to be not a whole lot more than something through which you're talking at the reader.[/quote]
You know, that's what I'm trying to do with this short story. Just practice my ability to create different characters and I'm not sure whether the problem you pointed out here will dissipate with the context of what comes before or it's just a problem inherent to my current writing ability. If it helps any, the very reason they start discussing religion in the first place is because the woman wonders what became of her stillborn son and a previous character (a politician's campaign manager) comes to wonder at what point his career stopped being about helping people and when he and his colleagues all became crooked and corrupt. They were discussing where all this evil that they find around and within them came, so that's why I'm hoping that the added context would allow more weight to be on the characters. I chose this excerpt just because I want to know if the general ideas discussed are interesting enough or not, but maybe I should have tried to add more context in.
@Plenair:
I chose religion because it's a pretty powerful tool for seeing how people approach life and what should be done in general. Do they believe that they have someone who can tell them the answers or have they been so worn down by the world around them that they've lost faith? The discussion around God is more about how they deal with their loss of hope. Their interpretations of God are, in some way or another, the sign of a broken person. Not really interested in making any point about God, more about how disheartening our failures and bitter experiences can be, to the point that even something that is seen as incorruptible and good can be relegated to nothing more than a bitter joke, an ironic twisting of a famous phrase. That's what I was going for at least. Perhaps I failed miserably and conveying it.
[quote=Omegathorion]Interesting take, and sounds like you have a good grasp of the theme you want to convey. Keep it up.
For your dialogue, the best advice is to read it aloud and act out the characters. That's the most reliable way to see if your dialogue sounds believable or not. There's one part that sounds way too flowery: "this cosmic tragedy we call evil arose." If it were me, I would say "s*** went down" instead, and most other people would too. All characters speak differently, which is why reading aloud and acting out the dialogue helps, because you have to make sure that the character's personality shines through everything they do. If that dude is just someone who naturally talks in flowery language, that personality trait of his has to be made clear to us through his dialogue, his body posture, the syllables he accentuates, his hair style, everything. Maybe he talks very elaborately as a form of sarcasm, and he does air quotes when he says "cosmic tragedy." Or maybe he's some kind of well-trained gentleman who speaks with deliberation and collects himself for a moment before he says anything. That also leads to feedback #2, give more details. You have a lot of text, break it up, show us some of that body language. The slender man with the glasses stands up, how does he do it? Does he knock over his chair, or does he do it so quietly that no one notices? Does he put his hands on his knees to brace himself? Know who your characters are, and make sure that your readers know who your characters are too.[/quote]
All good advice. I've always been weary of writing other characters since it's extremely hard to develop different verbal patterns for them all along with providing each of them consistent views and perspectives. I like the idea of reading the conversation out loud though, that ought to help some. The man with the cigarette is meant to have a higher diction than the rest. As of right now, I'm imagining him as a professor of the humanities disillusioned with the lack of impact he's had with his students, along with his lack of faith in what he's dedicated his life to.
As for the added details, that's all in the refining process. I wrote this in ten minutes. I just want to get a feel for how people react to the general idea of what's written, but thanks for the well thought out response. Took a while since I had to chew over what you said. Appreciate it man.
@djmaxaaron:
Can you explain why? Any feedback is welcome.
well, that was trite
Something about the last line makes me feel irked. I still like the overall feel of the story though i guess
I don't know, I don't like it. Maybe it's because this is just an excerpt and I don't know your characters, but this discussion holds no weight coming from these people. If you only want to discuss the ideas, then there are probably much more straightforward ways of doing so. As it is right now, your characters seem to be not a whole lot more than something through which you're talking at the reader.
[quote=0Kirito0]tl;dr
also if anywhere in there you are suggesting talk of god that's just gonna be seen as flame bait.[/quote]
If you're going to ask for a tl;dr at least read the first paragraph.
If I didn't have 4 assignments due this week I would actually take the time to read this
Well it's got the vibe.
Don't care for the ideas, but I'm not the right audience.
Interesting take, and sounds like you have a good grasp of the theme you want to convey. Keep it up.
For your dialogue, the best advice is to read it aloud and act out the characters. That's the most reliable way to see if your dialogue sounds believable or not. There's one part that sounds way too flowery: "this cosmic tragedy we call evil arose." If it were me, I would say "s*** went down" instead, and most other people would too. All characters speak differently, which is why reading aloud and acting out the dialogue helps, because you have to make sure that the character's personality shines through everything they do. If that dude is just someone who naturally talks in flowery language, that personality trait of his has to be made clear to us through his dialogue, his body posture, the syllables he accentuates, his hair style, everything. Maybe he talks very elaborately as a form of sarcasm, and he does air quotes when he says "cosmic tragedy." Or maybe he's some kind of well-trained gentleman who speaks with deliberation and collects himself for a moment before he says anything. That also leads to feedback #2, give more details. You have a lot of text, break it up, show us some of that body language. The slender man with the glasses stands up, how does he do it? Does he knock over his chair, or does he do it so quietly that no one notices? Does he put his hands on his knees to brace himself? Know who your characters are, and make sure that your readers know who your characters are too.
[quote=0Kirito0]tl;dr
also if anywhere in there you are suggesting talk of god that's just gonna be seen as flame bait.[/quote]
Joke's on you then b/c the thread rlly isn't about god and it's not a bannable offense anyway. Learn to at least skim bro.