General

@orangeking11: Wow congratulations on all that.

If You&I sticks (the shared cash shop) then I'll consider switching. Other than that I don't really care much about maximum damage output since I won't reach that potential. Pets + CS clothes > damage anyday.

Pretty sure Cygnus Knights outshined us Adventurers before too, the only limiting factor being their max level at 120.

But if anything, hope for another revamp I guess.

[quote=PhreshPrynce]Wow, i haven't seen you around in like 4 years, you were once the no.1 NL cheer leader lol.[/quote]

I graduated, got a job, got engaged, and been busy with all sorts of things for a while. Still rootin' for Team #1 though. xD

@Kiitsune: wat. I didn't see that in the video.. holy shi

Hearing nw's have a passive elemental ignore makes me die a little more inside.

[quote=TripleBladez]That's something I don't understand. All Adventurer Thieves should've gotten a vertical jump in RED, but instead, Adventurer Bowman were gifted with one. A Damage Reduction skill for more survivability would've also helped as NL's are the only Thief class without one now.[/quote]

I would love that upward jump because climbing up the ladder in hoh is so dam annoying

[quote=hensXIII]they got a lot of things i fee like NLs should have gotten such as an upward jump, damage reduction for more suvivability as well[/quote]

That's something I don't understand. All Adventurer Thieves should've gotten a vertical jump in RED, but instead, Adventurer Bowman were gifted with one. A Damage Reduction skill for more survivability would've also helped as NL's are the only Thief class without one now.

they got a lot of things i fee like NLs should have gotten such as an upward jump, damage reduction for more suvivability as well as what at least seems like more 1v1 bossing potential.
and the skills actually look pretty nice and thematically well done

Hyped. Only qualm I have is to cube another emblem ;_;

NL attacks only slightly faster, but NW does more damage per throw (1890% vs 2160%). Additionally, NW's shadow partner seems to be able to proc his bats seperately, so NW's bats will hit more often than mark of night lord (with more hits and damage per hit as well). Factoring in the passive elemental reduction NW has, it seems NL is completely outclassed with equal funding in both capping and non-capping scenarios.

Other than mobbing skills, the only big difference is that NL mark spawns from the center of mobs, while the bats fly from NW. This should only have an impact at gollux.

people are in denial rite now becuase its in kmst still... wait until its released in kms and its doing cap lines.. then the hype will be real

[quote=Compose]Is the speed of NL QT = NW QT?[/quote]

Technically, NW's Quintuple Throw is slower than NL's Quadruple Throw if you can believe it.

NL: 780 ms at normal (6), which equates to 600 ms delay at faster (2)
NW: 540 ms for the first four hits + 270 ms for the fifth hit = 810 ms at normal (6), which equates to 420 ms + 210 ms = 630 ms at faster (2)

630 / 600 = 1.05x, so NL's QT is 5% faster at faster (2).

Is the speed of NL QT = NW QT?

@bluebomber24: I agree. The cooldown is pretty long itself (5 minutes), and the duration is pretty short at 30 seconds (but it's balanced). I expect a cooldown reduction in the next Tespia update.

To TS: I like the SP projections as that eliminates the 15-hit cap, but I don't think I can stand looking at all these mimicking clones. I do have a NW already, so I'm intrigued to see what they're capable of when they're officially released.

As with the other skills, I fully expected NW's to cover up the disadvantages that plagued NL's. I'm looking at 15% Evasion Rate from Haste (basically added from DB's Side Step) when NL's have zero, and no, that doesn't make up for 5% less Dodge Rate for NW's. An innate Damage Reduction (15%) compared to NL's requiring mobs trapped inside Purge Area's hit-box for a 30% Damage Reduction. A vertical jump when NL/Shad/DB's have none after the fact that Adventurer Bowman were blessed with one in the RED update. A passive healing of sorts (albeit, doesn't look great than Drain or Vampire) when Drain was removed in the Justice update.

I can go on, but this one, I wasn't surprised with given the fact that NW's had their revamp after NL's - Sextuple Throw. My thought process when they delayed the NW revamp was that they could one-up NL's because the latest updates will always outshine the previous (which is why I wanted the RED update to happen after all 5 Cygnus were revamped). However, I also presumed that if NW's were somehow given Sextuple Throw in the future (which is now), then another NL revamp will happen sooner rather than later where they're given Septuple Throw. My problem with that was the 15-hit cap, which has been alleviated for NW's.

Then, there are subtle changes that NL's could've had like Shadow Web being an actual bind skill. Its function has been useless since Big Bang, but I can go all the way back to when it was introduced with the 3rd job advancement. Why they haven't removed the skill (when they had a chance to in BB, Chaos, Justice, RED), or alter it into a bind is mind boggling to say the least. It gives me the notion that they have no idea how to revamp NL's. They have always half-assed our revamp, including RED. For example, Shade Split was a close ranged 3rd job mobbing skill in Justice. Who was the dolt with the bright idea to place a close ranged mobber on a class that utilizes long ranged techniques? That was at least acknowledged in RED when they made it a long ranged skill.

Copying Mark of Night Lord is one thing, but they also have a Final Feint-like revival skill. NL's can only dream of that luxury when their survivability has been below par, and wasn't even addressed in the RED update. Rapid Evasion sounds nice, and I give them credit for that unique idea. What I don't like is how they can easily ignore Physical Resistance because they're a Cygnus. I'm sure BM, Bucc's, and Hero's to an extent can relate to how that feels.

@OmgItsMazz: You can start your own guild with just them hehe Take picture and submit to basil picture threads lmao

@OoYuukioO: hahaha that'd be hilarious, imagine dressing them up in mesoranger outfits and just having them follow you around posing..

@OmgItsMazz: LMAO nice, shame besides the shadows I'm not really interested in them much besides finishing farming the Cygnus link skills lol

Now if the Shadows were to make Super Ranger poses, thats a whole different story HAHA xD

Idk what I am missing but idk why the SP hyper is being hyped. Normalized over time its like any other hyper skill to me.

So they can use shadow clones. They have greater Potential for a set interval of time for a momentary domination. They can't do as much on consistency even with their perks.

The trollage intent of this thread is too strong.

IMO revamped NW looks lame AND boring. I'd choose a NL over it at any time lul

[quote=Quanni123X]Exactly. Once that buff is all over and the cooldown is active, they're useless dead weight in comparison to a NL.[/quote]

They have a bind too.

their triple shadow partner has an insanely long cooldown

[quote=Undexme]idk they dont seem too strong lol, quick throwing but not many hits maybe like 3-4?
high ranged nls use QT almsot twice a second thats 20 hits im not sure how strong the nws are compared to that

does anybody have detials? like % adn delay and all the skills description?[/quote]
Well, if they use their hyper skill and have the additional attack hyper, they hit a total of 24 hits per attack, but that's only with there lvl 150 hyper :o

idk they dont seem too strong lol, quick throwing but not many hits maybe like 3-4?
high ranged nls use QT almsot twice a second thats 20 hits im not sure how strong the nws are compared to that

does anybody have detials? like % adn delay and all the skills description?

I think... It's going to raise the price of theif equipment...

Nice. I guess thief will start going up again. Start sellling luk and stock up cheap dex stuff.

@OoYuukioO: Good news =P
http://new.tinygrab.com/a395c0272ec782bd77f8db4a02c468b8c84187e73a.png

Lots of shadows!

[quote=OmgItsMazz]http://en.channel.pandora.tv/channel/video.ptv?ch_userid=cige16&prgid=50315189&categid=2955770&page=1

There's a NW vs. Mu Lung Dojo video if any of you are interested. Hits/second looks absolutely insane.[/quote]

that pisses me off even more :c LF NL DRAIN PST

@OmgItsMazz: I agree with the new "Shadow Partner" concept, really like how the shadows mimics your moves it just fits more realistically. I was hoping for more shadows to be standing behind your character though lol (not sure if there was more, couldn't watch in full screen...)

I think it'd be cool if all classes had Shadow Partners hehe

@OoYuukioO I think both classes look pretty good, I like the new Shadow Partner concept a lot (a separate 'character' attacking beside you, rather than extra lines added to your attacking skill), I think it'd be cool if other thieves had SP that worked like that. Blaze Wizard does look fun too though

[quote=OmgItsMazz]http://en.channel.pandora.tv/channel/video.ptv?ch_userid=cige16&prgid=50315189&categid=2955770&page=1

There's a NW vs. Mu Lung Dojo video if any of you are interested. Hits/second looks absolutely insane.[/quote]

That hyper skill doe.

Ehh, more interested in BW

http://en.channel.pandora.tv/channel/video.ptv?ch_userid=cige16&prgid=50315189&categid=2955770&page=1

There's a NW vs. Mu Lung Dojo video if any of you are interested. Hits/second looks absolutely insane.

Oh yeah, they also have like a permanent drain

[quote=orangeking11]I'll try it out once it comes since I already have a NW, but eh. xD[/quote]

Wow, i haven't seen you around in like 4 years, you were once the no.1 NL cheer leader lol.

@Kiitsune:

Shadow Servant: http://orangemushroom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/shadow-servant.png

Shadow illusion: http://orangemushroom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/shadow-illusion.png

In Shadow Illusion, you can see it looks like Shadow Servant is there and only 2 shadows behind it so thats where my assumption is coming from thats all. But I dunno, just gonna wait for a video showing the hyper skills

[quote=OoYuukioO]Shadow Illusion: For a short period of time, summon 3 shadows which copy your actions after a short delay. Their attacks do not activate Damage Reflect but can activate Marks of Darkness or Shadow Bats.

Oh Baby <3

Now I'm wondering is it 3 more shadows on top of your shadow servant giving you a total of 4 shadows
or
Is it another 2 shadows on top of your shadow servant giving you a total of 3 shadows

From the skill icon, its looks like the 2nd scenario but I'll wait and see.[/quote]

Pretty sure it's 3 ontop of the original shadow partner so 4 total.

I'll try it out once it comes since I already have a NW, but eh. xD

Shadow Illusion: For a short period of time, summon 3 shadows which copy your actions after a short delay. Their attacks do not activate Damage Reflect but can activate Marks of Darkness or Shadow Bats.

Oh Baby <3

Now I'm wondering is it 3 more shadows on top of your shadow servant giving you a total of 4 shadows
or
Is it another 2 shadows on top of your shadow servant giving you a total of 3 shadows

From the skill icon, its looks like the 2nd scenario but I'll wait and see.

[quote=DogPukeYellow]That's really all you ought to be extracting from it: it's a possible platform toward how our revamp may look in the technical sense.[/quote]

But it's still kinda hard to ignore their triple shadow partner. though I'm sure that's on a cooldown, it has to be.

[quote=Kiitsune]If they gave us sextuple throw and a bind I'd be fine with it.[/quote]

That's really all you ought to be extracting from it: it's a possible platform toward how our revamp may look in the technical sense.

[quote=DogPukeYellow]I've already said it, but they look like gaudy, ill-conceived trash. Introductory classes are meant to outdo others in numbers, so as long as balancing is a part of the game's timeline, I don't care about them. NLs will probably remain more charming.

And this is from someone who thinks Cygnus classes should have stayed at level 120. I'm glad they got it done if our counterparts are this repugnant. Rooting for them. Hoping this means fewer NL players in the future.[/quote]

If they gave us sextuple throw and a bind I'd be fine with it.

I've already said it, but they look like gaudy, ill-conceived trash. Introductory classes are meant to outdo others in numbers, so as long as balancing is a part of the game's timeline, I don't care about them. NLs will probably remain more charming.

And this is from someone who thinks Cygnus classes should have stayed at level 120. I'm glad they got it done if our counterparts are this repugnant. Rooting for them. Hoping this means fewer NL players in the future.

[quote=Bleky]How do they outshine us? I like the backdash or w.e but that's it[/quote]

triple shadow partner, sextuple throw, a bind? their shadow partner attacks are seperate so they aren't limited to 15 lines.
also they have an autorevive skill.

How do they outshine us? I like the backdash or w.e but that's it