[quote=zcrimsyn]@darkodor: You see trying to change people's beliefs is just wrong. Christians the ones that are really Christian do not put pressure in trying to convert others to believe in there beliefs. If someone wants to be atheistic or turn to any other religion they will do so on there own. Regardless of what anyone else says or does. Trying to force others to do what you think is right is just wrong. In fact even though you're an atheist you're more or less still in some form of a religion. If you're trying to get people to turn to atheism that's just the same as other religions informing others about there beliefs. I also seen videos and what not about many kinds of stuff and still faithful to my religion. So all and all the main point is no one is going to be change that fast unless they arn't that strong into there beliefs. If someone is very strong into there faith they will most likely never change. You grew up in a Christian household but you said you gradually became agnostic right? That most likely means you really never were a Christian nor had any real faith. If you had a strong faith you wouldn't turn.[/quote] Again, you misinterpret my words. You express it as if i'm going to fight them if they don't become atheist. I clearly said that i simply present my arguments, and if they don't choose to adhere to my arguments, then it's fine (as i clearly stated before, but you misunderstood completely). I'm not going to go any further in order to convert them. Everyone has their own beliefs, and if they choose to believe it, then it's good for them. This thread is about religion, so i simply stated my argument in order to show my reasoning and spread critical thinking. I was a "Christian" until when i was about 17, and then i expressed a lot of doubts. The past 2 years I became a full agnostic after actively pursuing arguments and knowledge. I would watch these argument videos objectively and honestly, i unconsciously wanted the christian side to win. However, as i slowly got rid of my original positive notions towards Christianity (and religion in general), I realized that the atheistic arguments are much more sound. This is all just my opinion, and in no way was i really attacking others (as the way you make it seem like it).
EDIT: also, i never put pressure into converting people to become an atheist. Instead of converting them to atheism as i kind of said before, I meant more towards spreading critical thinking. I would always love to be Christian again, but the evidence is not there. Atheists like me are trying to spread critical thinking, and if you don't agree with my arguments (which i have a plethora of against christianity), then please give me a counterargument (i completely welcome responses as long as they don't use a fallacy like ad hominem). And as a side note, i'm pretty sure theres a verse in the bible that states that christians should spread their religion across all corners of the world. In this case, "true" christians should indeed be actively trying to convert others to Christianity (which is directly opposite to what you said lol).
@darkodor: You see trying to change people's beliefs is just wrong. Christians the ones that are really Christian do not put pressure in trying to convert others to believe in there beliefs. If someone wants to be atheistic or turn to any other religion they will do so on there own. Regardless of what anyone else says or does. Trying to force others to do what you think is right is just wrong. In fact even though you're an atheist you're more or less still in some form of a religion. If you're trying to get people to turn to atheism that's just the same as other religions informing others about there beliefs. I also seen videos and what not about many kinds of stuff and still faithful to my religion. So all and all the main point is no one is going to be change that fast unless they arn't that strong into there beliefs. If someone is very strong into there faith they will most likely never change. You grew up in a Christian household but you said you gradually became agnostic right? That most likely means you really never were a Christian nor had any real faith. If you had a strong faith you wouldn't turn.
[quote=zcrimsyn]It's highly unlikely someone will become atheist watching a 10 min video. Even watching 1 hr of video isn't going to change someone from a believer to not. If someone is a strong believer it will take years to change there mind. So really no clue why you are bringing up this type of stuff unless you're trying to promote and change people's beliefs. People who instantly change beliefs are most likely not a religious person anyway. Strong religious people will not change there beliefs so easily.[/quote]
I grew up in a Christian household, and I gradually became an agnostic through videos such as Christopher hitchens/richard dawkins videos (and among many, many other sources of info). And obviously a person not sound in fate will not become an atheist for a while. My best friend became an Atheist after about a year of being exposed to these arguments and such. And yes, I am trying to change a person's belief. If they don't bother to change, then k, i won't go further. However, like dawkins, it's more of spreading awareness and critical thinking.
[quote=shammyshakes]dawkins is a proven bigot who shames religions as a whole. his twitter account is full of toxic trolls who worship him for no reason. trash imo[/quote]
I wouldn't base the man's intellectual stance on his fan's expressions. I've long held that most internet atheist "activists" are easily as dogmatic and bigoted about their stance as the religious who they love to criticize.
Dawkins' stance is not one entirely of bigotry. Though he speaks bitterly of religion, he's often acknowledged some upsides to religion, as well as noted positive aspects of the Bible in many television debates with religious individuals (often pastors, rabbis, etc.)
One other thing a lot of his fans tend to be wrong about is his actual stance on the theological concept of a deity; he's already stated in the past that he is described as an atheist by his fans, but he describes himself as an agnostic more than anything else. If one wanted to get technical, he'd be an "agnostic atheist", which tends to be a position common amongst scientists who delve into that topic.
i think religions teach a lot of good things - learning to give up want/not be reliant on luxuries, giving to your fellow man, loving your fellow man, hate the sin love the sinner, be humble, etc - but organized religion is kind of a mess. i was raise christian and at this point i look at the bible and say they're stories, written by man, to teach guidelines on how to behave..some are still applicable.
but i do believe in a god...very unsure that it's the christian god, or if there is an afterlife, or that god cares about us very much at all. i generally try to live my life being a good human being and i think that if god's out there and does care, that's going to matter more than going to church every easter and christmas
I think it's entirely possible for an omnipotent God to transcend reality, and thus it's possible for God to exist to one person and then not exist to another, and both of them will be correct because their realities are separate.
[quote=darkodor]No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).[/quote]
It's highly unlikely someone will become atheist watching a 10 min video. Even watching 1 hr of video isn't going to change someone from a believer to not. If someone is a strong believer it will take years to change there mind. So really no clue why you are bringing up this type of stuff unless you're trying to promote and change people's beliefs. People who instantly change beliefs are most likely not a religious person anyway. Strong religious people will not change there beliefs so easily.
[quote=darkodor]I said anything more than 10 minutes...Their debate videos are usually 1-2 hours long, and I didn't say immediate atheist either. Bend over pls[/quote]
dawkins is a proven bigot who shames religions as a whole. his twitter account is full of toxic trolls who worship him for no reason. trash imo
[quote=0kevqn]No one is going to become an atheist from watching a 10 minute YouTube video[/quote]I said anything more than 10 minutes...Their debate videos are usually 1-2 hours long, and I didn't say immediate atheist either. Bend over pls
[quote=darkodor]No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).[/quote]
No one is going to become an atheist from watching a 10 minute YouTube video
No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).
[quote=sezbeth]Negative. I find the notion of a fallaciously labeled "omniscient" being asinine and frankly ridiculous. However, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of a deity, as our lack of knowledge regarding the origins of the Big Bang does not warrant certainty on either side of the debate, nor anywhere in between.[/quote]
This. I sit on this vehicle of agnosticism which is neither within the spectrum of god or godless.
Negative. I find the notion of a fallaciously labeled "omniscient" being asinine and frankly ridiculous. However, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of a deity, as our lack of knowledge regarding the origins of the Big Bang does not warrant certainty on either side of the debate, nor anywhere in between.
35 Comments • Newest first
I don't believe in God per se, but I do believe in a higher power that controls the universe.
Like, you know, karma.
No not rly
No, I don't think that religion should even exist. You can believe if you want, but no matter what, all religion should be expunged from humanity.
Always have, always will.
[quote=zcrimsyn]@darkodor: You see trying to change people's beliefs is just wrong. Christians the ones that are really Christian do not put pressure in trying to convert others to believe in there beliefs. If someone wants to be atheistic or turn to any other religion they will do so on there own. Regardless of what anyone else says or does. Trying to force others to do what you think is right is just wrong. In fact even though you're an atheist you're more or less still in some form of a religion. If you're trying to get people to turn to atheism that's just the same as other religions informing others about there beliefs. I also seen videos and what not about many kinds of stuff and still faithful to my religion. So all and all the main point is no one is going to be change that fast unless they arn't that strong into there beliefs. If someone is very strong into there faith they will most likely never change. You grew up in a Christian household but you said you gradually became agnostic right? That most likely means you really never were a Christian nor had any real faith. If you had a strong faith you wouldn't turn.[/quote]
Again, you misinterpret my words. You express it as if i'm going to fight them if they don't become atheist. I clearly said that i simply present my arguments, and if they don't choose to adhere to my arguments, then it's fine (as i clearly stated before, but you misunderstood completely). I'm not going to go any further in order to convert them. Everyone has their own beliefs, and if they choose to believe it, then it's good for them. This thread is about religion, so i simply stated my argument in order to show my reasoning and spread critical thinking. I was a "Christian" until when i was about 17, and then i expressed a lot of doubts. The past 2 years I became a full agnostic after actively pursuing arguments and knowledge. I would watch these argument videos objectively and honestly, i unconsciously wanted the christian side to win. However, as i slowly got rid of my original positive notions towards Christianity (and religion in general), I realized that the atheistic arguments are much more sound. This is all just my opinion, and in no way was i really attacking others (as the way you make it seem like it).
EDIT: also, i never put pressure into converting people to become an atheist. Instead of converting them to atheism as i kind of said before, I meant more towards spreading critical thinking. I would always love to be Christian again, but the evidence is not there. Atheists like me are trying to spread critical thinking, and if you don't agree with my arguments (which i have a plethora of against christianity), then please give me a counterargument (i completely welcome responses as long as they don't use a fallacy like ad hominem). And as a side note, i'm pretty sure theres a verse in the bible that states that christians should spread their religion across all corners of the world. In this case, "true" christians should indeed be actively trying to convert others to Christianity (which is directly opposite to what you said lol).
@darkodor: You see trying to change people's beliefs is just wrong. Christians the ones that are really Christian do not put pressure in trying to convert others to believe in there beliefs. If someone wants to be atheistic or turn to any other religion they will do so on there own. Regardless of what anyone else says or does. Trying to force others to do what you think is right is just wrong. In fact even though you're an atheist you're more or less still in some form of a religion. If you're trying to get people to turn to atheism that's just the same as other religions informing others about there beliefs. I also seen videos and what not about many kinds of stuff and still faithful to my religion. So all and all the main point is no one is going to be change that fast unless they arn't that strong into there beliefs. If someone is very strong into there faith they will most likely never change. You grew up in a Christian household but you said you gradually became agnostic right? That most likely means you really never were a Christian nor had any real faith. If you had a strong faith you wouldn't turn.
[quote=zcrimsyn]It's highly unlikely someone will become atheist watching a 10 min video. Even watching 1 hr of video isn't going to change someone from a believer to not. If someone is a strong believer it will take years to change there mind. So really no clue why you are bringing up this type of stuff unless you're trying to promote and change people's beliefs. People who instantly change beliefs are most likely not a religious person anyway. Strong religious people will not change there beliefs so easily.[/quote]
I grew up in a Christian household, and I gradually became an agnostic through videos such as Christopher hitchens/richard dawkins videos (and among many, many other sources of info). And obviously a person not sound in fate will not become an atheist for a while. My best friend became an Atheist after about a year of being exposed to these arguments and such. And yes, I am trying to change a person's belief. If they don't bother to change, then k, i won't go further. However, like dawkins, it's more of spreading awareness and critical thinking.
if i do will it make my life better
no, so no
Low key no
[quote=shammyshakes]dawkins is a proven bigot who shames religions as a whole. his twitter account is full of toxic trolls who worship him for no reason. trash imo[/quote]
I wouldn't base the man's intellectual stance on his fan's expressions. I've long held that most internet atheist "activists" are easily as dogmatic and bigoted about their stance as the religious who they love to criticize.
Dawkins' stance is not one entirely of bigotry. Though he speaks bitterly of religion, he's often acknowledged some upsides to religion, as well as noted positive aspects of the Bible in many television debates with religious individuals (often pastors, rabbis, etc.)
One other thing a lot of his fans tend to be wrong about is his actual stance on the theological concept of a deity; he's already stated in the past that he is described as an atheist by his fans, but he describes himself as an agnostic more than anything else. If one wanted to get technical, he'd be an "agnostic atheist", which tends to be a position common amongst scientists who delve into that topic.
i think religions teach a lot of good things - learning to give up want/not be reliant on luxuries, giving to your fellow man, loving your fellow man, hate the sin love the sinner, be humble, etc - but organized religion is kind of a mess. i was raise christian and at this point i look at the bible and say they're stories, written by man, to teach guidelines on how to behave..some are still applicable.
but i do believe in a god...very unsure that it's the christian god, or if there is an afterlife, or that god cares about us very much at all. i generally try to live my life being a good human being and i think that if god's out there and does care, that's going to matter more than going to church every easter and christmas
Religion is a waste of time.
I think it's entirely possible for an omnipotent God to transcend reality, and thus it's possible for God to exist to one person and then not exist to another, and both of them will be correct because their realities are separate.
[quote=darkodor]No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).[/quote]
It's highly unlikely someone will become atheist watching a 10 min video. Even watching 1 hr of video isn't going to change someone from a believer to not. If someone is a strong believer it will take years to change there mind. So really no clue why you are bringing up this type of stuff unless you're trying to promote and change people's beliefs. People who instantly change beliefs are most likely not a religious person anyway. Strong religious people will not change there beliefs so easily.
Yeah, I do.
Where is the I don't know option
[quote=darkodor]I said anything more than 10 minutes...Their debate videos are usually 1-2 hours long, and I didn't say immediate atheist either. Bend over pls[/quote]
dawkins is a proven bigot who shames religions as a whole. his twitter account is full of toxic trolls who worship him for no reason. trash imo
Do we still need popcorn for this sort of thread? hueheuhe <3
[quote=0kevqn]No one is going to become an atheist from watching a 10 minute YouTube video[/quote]I said anything more than 10 minutes...Their debate videos are usually 1-2 hours long, and I didn't say immediate atheist either. Bend over pls
I believe in potato salad.
[quote=darkodor]No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).[/quote]
No one is going to become an atheist from watching a 10 minute YouTube video
Allahu Akbar
God is merely the personification of the laws of physics.
i would say sometimes but i might as well just say no
Yes. Yes I do.
God is real.
agnosticly
Only in fiction.
No. If you watch a Richard Dawkins or Chrisopher Hitchens debate video on youtube (almost any video with more than 10 minutes duration), you will gradually become an atheist (granted you view the videos logically and objectively of course).
Sometimes
Define "God"
[quote=sezbeth]Negative. I find the notion of a fallaciously labeled "omniscient" being asinine and frankly ridiculous. However, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of a deity, as our lack of knowledge regarding the origins of the Big Bang does not warrant certainty on either side of the debate, nor anywhere in between.[/quote]
This. I sit on this vehicle of agnosticism which is neither within the spectrum of god or godless.
[quote=weredoggy]Yeah and his name is JOHN CENNNAAAAAAAAA[/quote]
Your time is up, my time is now
You can't see me, my time is now
It's the franchise, boy I'm shinin' now
You can't see me, my time is now!
Yeah and his name is JOHN CENNNAAAAAAAAA
Negative. I find the notion of a fallaciously labeled "omniscient" being asinine and frankly ridiculous. However, I'm not entirely opposed to the concept of a deity, as our lack of knowledge regarding the origins of the Big Bang does not warrant certainty on either side of the debate, nor anywhere in between.